AMD Ryzen 7 5700G most powerful AMD CPU with own graphics ?

[dcb]

Hello there,

I've been pondering an 8 core or 12 core machine. Either expensive 8 core or cheap 12 core.

I can see the 12 core Ryzen 9 5900X needs a graphics card and I can see that the 8 core Ryzen 7 5700G doesn't,
so that's about £60 saved. I only need VGA, I don't do gaming.

Given I am AMD only, is there any other CPU I ought to consider ?

Spec follows. I'll be running Linux, so wireless card compatibility might be an issue.

Case
PCS 3601 CASE
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 7 5700G Eight Core CPU with Radeon™ Graphics (3.8GHz-4.6GHz/20MB CACHE/AM4)
Motherboard
ASUS® PRIME A520M-K: Micro-ATX, AM4, USB 3.0, 6GB/s
Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3200MHz (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
INTEGRATED GRAPHICS ACCELERATOR (GPU)
1st Storage Drive
2TB SEAGATE BARRACUDA SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 256MB CACHE
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Power Supply
CORSAIR 450W CV SERIES™ CV-450 POWER SUPPLY
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
PCS FrostFlow 100 V3 Series High Performance CPU Cooler (AMD)
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
Wireless Network Card
WIRELESS 802.11N 300Mbps/2.4GHz PCI-E CARD
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
NO OPERATING SYSTEM REQUIRED

 

[Scott]

There are a number of things to consider here. Other than the CPU & the RAM I would completely change everything in the build as you have proposed it. There is even potential to change the CPU and RAM with the new CPU offerings recently released.

I would have a look through this thread then come back with the main highlights:

Please read before posting:- Collaboration of Helpful Hints

NB: These forums are not an official support channel. None of us work for PCS, we're all either customers or techies who just like to help out where possible. For any official support, you need to contact PCS directly either through your PCS account, or via the contact details on the main...

www.pcspecialist.co.uk

 

[TonyCarter]

If you want a more powerful AMD CPU with iGPU, then you'll have to go for a Zen4 build and get a 7x00...as they all come with iGPUs IIRC.

 

[dcb]

If you want a more powerful AMD CPU with iGPU, then you'll have to go for a Zen4 build and get a 7x00...as they all come with iGPUs IIRC.

Thanks for the tip. The fact that these CPUs have iGPU I hadn't noticed. AMD dropped the 'G' suffix.
Even the lowly 6 core 7000 series in a machine is £1,200 so over budget. I don't really want to go over about £800.

I currently have a six year old 8 core FX-8350.

Yes, the same number of cores as the 5700G, but the CPU microarchitecture improvements should deliver significant speed gains,
especially since I specced the highest speed RAM for the 5700G.

 

[TonyCarter]

£800 is a very low budget. What's this PC for, as I'm confused by your statement that "I've been pondering an 8 core or 12 core machine. Either expensive 8 core or cheap 12 core."

Does your use case benefit from more cores?

The iGPU will not offer you very much in the way of gaming, and the whole spec is really only of use as an office machine...and if that's the case, then you won't need the Frostflow 100 cooler for the 5700G as it will come with a AMD Wraith fan cooler anyway.

 

[dcb]

What's this PC for, as I'm confused by your statement that "I've been pondering an 8 core or 12 core machine. Either expensive 8 core or cheap 12 core."

Software development. It also gets used as a build server, where all cores can be used, so the more the merrier.

I had hoped to get a 12 core machine, but since they all need a graphics card, then it looks like I will
be sticking with 8 core.

The iGPU will not offer you very much in the way of gaming, and the whole spec is really only of use as an office machine...and if that's the case, then you won't need the Frostflow 100 cooler for the 5700G as it will come with a AMD Wraith fan cooler anyway.

As I said originally, no gaming. Thanks for the tip about the cooling. I hadn't noticed that.

 

[TonyCarter]

If the cores will be fully utilised for long periods whilst compiling, the I'd definitely put an AIO cooler on it, otherwise the cores will throttle as they hit their temp limits.

Here's my mock-up of 2 Hardware Unboxed Chromium Compile charts...showing the 8-core 5700G vs the 6-core 7600X...and that more, OLDER cores, are not always as good as fewer, NEW cores.

It might be a better option to go for the 5800X and a GT1030 GPU combo to get you to within about 10% of the newer 7600X compile performance.

 

[dcb]

If the cores will be fully utilised for long periods whilst compiling, the I'd definitely put an AIO cooler on it, otherwise the cores will throttle as they hit their temp limits.

My understanding is that the 5700G is a 65W part and the standard PCSpecialist cooling is for a 105W part,
i.e. 40W of slack.

Failing that, I can always run the box with covers off. That's how the 8350 runs happily.

Here's my mock-up of 2 Hardware Unboxed Chromium Compile charts...showing the 8-core 5700G vs the 6-core 7600X...and that more, OLDER cores, are not always as good as fewer, NEW cores.
It might be a better option to go for the 5800X and a GT1030 GPU combo to get you to within about 10% of the newer 7600X compile performance.

Interesting, but openbenchmarking.org has the 5700G at three times the speed of the current 8350
and I know the new RAM runs at twice the speed of the old RAM, so I expect to get about a 2.5x speedup.

I think this should be sufficient speedup for most purposes. One standard job I have takes 100 hours
or so on the 8350, all cores running flat out, so 800 CPU-hours.

A 2.5x speedup means 100 hours reduces to 40 hours, which moves a weekly long job to a
twice weekly shorter job.

Even faster if I partition the job between the old machine and the new machine. Thanks
very much for your input.

View attachment 34870

 

[SpyderTracks]

My understanding is that the 5700G is a 65W part and the standard PCSpecialist cooling is for a 105W part,

TDP is of pretty much zero relevance as the chips don't run at that.

The 5700G averages about 80W under load:

The AMD Ryzen 7 5700G, Ryzen 5 5600G, and Ryzen 3 5300G Review

www.anandtech.com

There's a lot of other reasons you also shouldn't go with the "rated wattage" of the cooler as any kind of realistic metric, it's just not accurate.

 

[dcb]

TDP is of pretty much zero relevance as the chips don't run at that.

The 5700G averages about 80W under load:

The AMD Ryzen 7 5700G, Ryzen 5 5600G, and Ryzen 3 5300G Review

www.anandtech.com

I will be running the CPU at stock frequency. Article quote:

In simple terms, processor manufacturers only ever guarantee two values that are tied together - when all cores are running at base frequency, the processor should be running at or below the TDP rating.

End quote.

Which AFAIK somewhat contradicts your claim. Even if your claim is correct, 80W < 125W, so still ok.

There's a lot of other reasons you also shouldn't go with the "rated wattage" of the cooler as any kind of realistic metric, it's just not accurate.

So why do PC Specialist mention it then ? It might well be guidance, but they won't want to publish inaccurate information.

 

[SpyderTracks]

n simple terms, processor manufacturers only ever guarantee two values that are tied together - when all cores are running at base frequency, the processor should be running at or below the TDP rating.

That's the whole point though, it's not true, TDP claims are wildly innacurate compared to real world performance.

Which AFAIK somewhat contradicts your claim. Even if your claim is correct, 80W < 125W, so still ok.

Again, you're not hearing what's being said. 125W of the cooler, means absolutely nothing, that's certainly not it's capabilities, it's simply a marketing number to aid sales.

 

[RichLan564]

Software development. It also gets used as a build server, where all cores can be used, so the more the merrier.

I had hoped to get a 12 core machine, but since they all need a graphics card, then it looks like I will
be sticking with 8 core.


As I said originally, no gaming. Thanks for the tip about the cooling. I hadn't noticed that.

Why don't you just go for 12 core and put a cheap as chips GPU in there?

 

[dcb]

>Why don't you just go for 12 core and put a cheap as chips GPU in there?

I did originally. That proved to be too expensive for my budget.

I've priced up the 5800X at £285, the 7600X at £340 and the GT1030 graphics card at £110.
I have seem some graphics cards for £60. The 5700G is £230 and I don't need a graphics card for that.

While it would be most unwise for the choice of graphics card (or not) to dictate
the CPU, it does look like the expected 2.5 speedup factor of the 5700G (mentioned earlier)
will be way enough for my needs.

I take the point about CPU cooling. After delivery, I will have a 24 hour test run at all cores
running flat out. If there is any significant evidence of throttling, I can either send the box back
as unsatisfactory or install an improved cooler.

I think we are done. Thanks for all your input. There were certainly a few factors mentioned I hadn't considered.

 

[dcb]

The machine turned up promptly and I installed Linux on it. Runs lovely.

Early days, but something that used to take 3 hours and a few minutes on the old box now runs in 1 hour,
so a clear 3x speedup.

Something else that runs in 30-40 minutes now takes 7 minutes for a 4x - 6x speedup.

So in practice, my fears about the amount of speedup were unjustified. Interestingly, Linux seems to think it has 16 cores, not 8.
With speedups like this, I'm not about to complain