Any RAM Experts Here?

[Simon]

Hi

I'm helping a friend to configure a desktop and the current specification includes an i7-3770 on an ASUS Maximus Gene V.
I've looked at the memory options offered by the PCS Configurator and at the QVL and I'm confused.
I believe my friend only needs 8GB (general purpose, fast desktop with a possibility for some video editing) but he is minded to go for 16GB. I think it would be nice to select a higher frequency, i.e. above 1600MHz, given he has a good processor. We would both prefer to be using 8GB DIMMs with a view to being able to add memory in the future.
However, the configurator only offers 8GB DIMMs above 1600MHz in a 32GB configuration and even that configuration isn't on the QVL using Kingston.
The QVL does list a number of configurations with eight DIMMs and I find this odd given there are only four slots on the MB.
I would be loathe to recommend a solution that isn't on the QVL, as I wouldn't like to risk him having a problem and being told he's running an unsupported configuration.
Ideally, we would want either 1 or 2 x 8GB at 1866 MHz with the possibility of going to 3 or 4 x 8GB at the same frequency later on.
Anyone have any ideas?

Simon

 

[Toxophilix]

I'm not a RAM expert but there seems to be near universal agreement that speeds greater than 1600 MHz are not beneficial in the real world. There's a brief statement of the argument here http://www.techradar.com/news/computing-components/upgrades/why-pc-memory-no-longer-matters-1076180

Concerning the quantity, I would say 8GB was plently for general use and that 16GB was luxurious. Not sure about video-editing though (not my thing, but I know if can be very hardware intensive).

As to quantity, RAM is so cheap now (if you confine yourself to 1600 MHz), if you think you will end up needing 32GB I would just buy it straight off.

 

[Simon]

Thanks for that, Toxophilix.

The article was an interesting read. I agree RAM prices are much more affordable now, but the move from 8GB (@1866) to 32GB still costs £171 (@1333) or £192 (@2400). And if I'm reading the QVL right then the only 32GB configuration at 1600MHz is using Corsair memory which, although I like it, isn't on the PCS configurator right now. To be honest, I probably only went for 1866 because there wasn't anything on the configurator at 1600MHz that seemed attractive.

Anyone else care to throw their tuppence in, especially if I'm missing a trick in how I'm reading the QVL?

Simon

 

[Karnor00]

I'm not sure why PCS only seem to offer 1600Mhz memory in 4GB modules. Particularly given that many motherboards (such as the one you mentioned) only include 4 DIMM sockets.

 

[Simon]

So, if my friend is adamant that he wants the option to get to 32GB some day without throwing away 4GB DIMMs in favour of 8GB ones, then Samsung 1333MHz looks like the way to go. I'm not sure if the QVL supports either Samsung 16GB (2 x 8GB) or 32GB (4 x 8GB) @ 1333MHz, but if there were problems I think PCS would have to resolve them given this option is offered on their configurator. It's a shame not to be able to do this at 1600MHz, though.

But if he is prepared to go for 32GB today then the 2400MHz Kingston DIMMs are only £21 more than the 1300MHz Samsung ones. But they're not on the QVL either, although Corsair DIMMs are. So, if the choice ends up being 1333MHz or 2400MHz for £21 then I might pursue the latter route, accepting that little or no real world benefit will accrue (per Toxophilis). And would this be a completely stable build, I wonder. Has anyone out there got the 32GB @ 2400MHz configuration on their Maximus Gene V and is it stable?

 

[Toxophilix]

Oh, if the difference is only £21 go for the 2400 MHz.

If the configurator allows it then it should be stable. PCS are not going to knowingly sell you a set up that doesn't work.

 

[Simon]

Well, maybe they wouldn't do that knowingly ... but they're human after all and I have spotted errors in the configurator before now so it would be reassuring to hear from someone who didn't find the QVL as difficult to interpret as I do or who had this configuration working perfectly.

And for that matter, why isn't 2 x 8GB with Kingston @ 2400 MHz an option from PCS?

I know RAM configurations can be subtle things, but previously I had always got the impression that if 4 x 8GB was supported then so would 1, 2 (especially) and 3 x 8GB but now I'm starting to wonder.

Nonetheless, I value your contributions of course.

Simon

 

[Wozza63]

If the RAM sticks didn't work, they would find out soon enough because the machine would be constantly failing in their tests, they would probably contact you and ask you to change your RAM type

wouldnt bother with anything higher than 1600MHz, its not completely stable and you may get it crashing, where as 1600MHz is completely stable and gonna give you the performance you need, for a better price too

 

[Simon]

Now that is something I hadn't thought of - thank you, Wozza365.
But the configurator lacks an option for 2 x 8GB @ 1600MHz or 2400MHz (making it difficult to order and hence bench test) so that leaves me with 2 x 8GB @ 1333MHz (a little disappointing) with the potential to go 32GB in the future if needed.
It isn't obvious (to me) that the QVL supports those options, but if ordered from the configurator I think PCS would have to fix any issues whether they showed up in their bench tests or not.
However, it isn't the configuration that I was hoping for

Simon

 

[Toxophilix]

I don't think you are misinterpreting the QVL. It seems pretty clear. However, as I understand it that's just a statement that the manufacturer has tested those configurations and verified they work. It isn't saying nothing else will work.

I would contact PCS and ask them what their grounds for confidence are.

Also, have you looked to see if Kingston say anything about compatibility of the 4x8 2400 kit with that motherboard?

 

[Wozza63]

what about the 32GB 1866MHz set, im sure they'd be stable and if they are not, you could just clock them down to 1600MHz in the BIOS

 

[Simon]

I had taken a quick look at the Kingston website, but hadn't realised that it did list support by MB. So, I've now checked again and am concerned to see that only 1333 and 1600 DIMMs are listed and then only in 4GB sticks. There is an 8GB "kit", but I'm assuming this is just 2 x 4GB at a better price and hence requiring two slots. I'll chat to PCS, but right now it looks like a potentially unsupported and rather disappointing 2 x 8GB or 4 x 8GB @ 1333MHz using Samsung
Thanks for your help.

 

[Simon]

Dear Wozza365

32GB @ 1866MHz is not an option on the configurator. And if we agree with Toxophilis that anything over 1600MHz is not beneficial, then for 32GB the QVL restricts us to CORSAIR (fine by me) for which brand there are supported options at both 1600 and 1866MHz. So, why not just stick with the 1600MHz ones? Is there something you're not telling us??? I'll need a chat with PCS, I think, as this would mean getting their agreement to build with no memory and for them to acknowledge that us adding CORSAIR at 1600MHz in either 2 x 8GB or 4 x 8GB configurations would not invalidate their warranty. PCS are usually pretty good about such things, in my experience.

Simon

 

[Toxophilix]

if we agree with Toxophilis that anything over 1600MHz is not beneficial

Toxophilix can be wrong though

ilike2burnthing has linked this article in some other threads http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/ivy-bridge-ddr3_4.html . Food for thought. If the benefit is as great as 2-3% per 266MHz step then the difference between 1600 MHz and 2400 MHz could be worth it if the price difference is slight.

Also, I think every benchmark I've seen suggests that 1333>1600 is the most significant step of all. I would be very reluctant to go for 1333 in an otherwise high-end spec.

However, if you are determined that you won't order anything not on the QVL, there doesn't seem to be any choice.

 

[Wozza63]

Toxophilix can be wrong though

ilike2burnthing has linked this article in some other threads http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/ivy-bridge-ddr3_4.html . Food for thought. If the benefit is as great as 2-3% per 266MHz step then the difference between 1600 MHz and 2400 MHz could be worth it if the price difference is slight.

Also, I think every benchmark I've seen suggests that 1333>1600 is the most significant step of all. I would be very reluctant to go for 1333 in an otherwise high-end spec.

However, if you are determined that you won't order anything not on the QVL, there doesn't seem to be any choice.

thats an interesting link and quite surprising benefits from faster RAM, especially from the game benchmarks, i think that past the 2000 mark, DDR3 generally becomes unstable, i think we will have to wait for DDR4 before we can go over 2000 without any kind of complications, of course, you may be lucky and never have a problem with 2400mhz RAM but then again, it is more likely to be the cause of your PC crashing

 

[Simon]

Very interesting article that I need to study at length - thank you.
As I'm advising a friend, I do want the specification to be stable and supported.
I'd risk going outside of the QVL, but would be very uncomfortable doing this at the same time as choosing something that is also not offered by PCS - possible warranty get out of jail free cards for all vendors in that situation!
Seems my original gut feel was right in looking for 1600MHz or 1866MHz for this processor, not least as I might recommend sticking with the integrated graphics.
Many thanks.
Simon

 

[Toxophilix]

Ah, I'd forgotten you were advising someone else. That would make me more conservative also.