Computer spec

[raymond a]

CORSAIR OBSIDIAN SERIES™ 750D FULL TOWER CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-6700k (4.0GHz) 8MB Cache
Motherboard
Gigabyte Z170X Gaming 3 ATX, LG1151, USB 3.1, SATA 6GBs
Memory (RAM)
64GB HyperX PREDATOR QUAD-DDR4 3000MHz X.M.P (4 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 1080 - DVI, HDMI, 3x DP - GeForce GTX VR Ready!
1st Hard Disk
500GB Samsung 850 EVO 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (upto 540MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
FREE WATCH DOGS 2 with select SAMSUNG SSDs!
2nd Hard Disk
500GB Samsung 850 EVO 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (upto 540MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
FREE WATCH DOGS 2 with select SAMSUNG SSDs!
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Power Supply
CORSAIR 850W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Corsair H80i V2 Hydro Cooler w/ PCS Liquid Series Ultra Quiet Fans
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Fan Controller
NZXT Sentry LX Fan Controller with upto 5 Fitted Case Fans
Extra Case Fans
2x 120mm Apache Black Quiet Fan (fitted to extract from rear/roof)
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB Options
2 PORT (1 x TYPE A, 1 x TYPE C) USB 3.1 PCI-E CARD + STANDARD USB PORTS
Firewire
2 Port IEEE 1394a Firewire PCI-E Card (2 x 6 pin)
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Professional 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Firefox™
Keyboard & Mouse
LOGITECH® MK520 WIRELESS KEYBOARD & MOUSE COMBO

Hello, Just joined the forum these are the specs of a new PC I would like PC Specialist to build. It will be used mostly for CAD and Blu Ray work. I would like an opinion on if it is powerful enough, as I don't want to be " under powered " I have no interest in games so will only be for the afore mentioned tasks.
cheers

 

[raymond a]

Slightly altered spec from above. any thoughts ?
Case
CORSAIR OBSIDIAN SERIES™ 750D FULL TOWER CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Six Core Processor i7-6850K (3.6GHz) 15MB Cache
Motherboard
Gigabyte X99 Ultra Gaming: ATX, LG2011-3, USB 3.1, SATA 6GBs, RGB Ready
Memory (RAM)
64GB HyperX PREDATOR QUAD-DDR4 3000MHz X.M.P (4 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 1080 - DVI, HDMI, 3x DP - GeForce GTX VR Ready!
1st Hard Disk
500GB Samsung 850 EVO 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (upto 540MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
FREE WATCH DOGS 2 with select SAMSUNG SSDs!
2nd Hard Disk
1TB SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 32MB CACHE
M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG PM961 M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3000MB/R, 1700MB/W)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Power Supply
CORSAIR 650W CS SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Corsair H80i V2 Hydro Cooler w/ PCS Liquid Series Ultra Quiet Fans
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Fan Controller
NZXT Sentry LX Fan Controller with upto 5 Fitted Case Fans
Extra Case Fans
2x 120mm Apache Black Quiet Fan (fitted to extract from rear/roof)
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB Options
2 PORT (1 x TYPE A, 1 x TYPE C) USB 3.1 PCI-E CARD + STANDARD USB PORTS
Firewire
2 Port IEEE 1394a Firewire PCI-E Card (2 x 6 pin)
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Professional 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Firefox™
Keyboard & Mouse
LOGITECH® MK520 WIRELESS KEYBOARD & MOUSE COMBO
Warranty
3 Year Gold Warranty (2 Year Collect & Return, 2 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
PCS EXTRA-CARE DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND - MON-FRI, PRE-NOON
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 3 to 5 working days
Quantity
1

 

[ubuysa]

It would really help if you could post a maximum budget. There's no point in people making suggestions for changes if they are too expensive for you.

 

[raymond a]

Sorry ubuysa never thought about posting a budget, I would go up too £3.500 if needed. The ones above are, 1st posting just under £3.000, and 2nd posting at just over £3..300

 

[Scott]

Given the budget this is what I would be going with....

Case
CORSAIR CARBIDE SERIES™ AIR 540 GAMING CASE
Overclocked CPU
Overclocked Intel® Six Core i7-6850K (3.6GHz @ MAX 4.3GHz)
Motherboard
Gigabyte X99 Ultra Gaming: ATX, LG2011-3, USB 3.1, SATA 6GBs, RGB Ready
Memory (RAM)
64GB HyperX PREDATOR QUAD-DDR4 3000MHz X.M.P (4 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 1080 - DVI, HDMI, 3x DP - GeForce GTX VR Ready!
1st Hard Disk
500GB Samsung 850 EVO 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (upto 540MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
FREE WATCH DOGS 2 with select SAMSUNG SSDs!
2nd Hard Disk
2TB SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 64MB CACHE
M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG SM961 M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3200MB/R, 1800MB/W)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
NOT REQUIRED
Power Supply
CORSAIR 850W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Corsair H100i V2 Hydro Cooler w/ PCS Liquid Series Ultra Quiet Fans
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Professional 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Keyboard & Mouse
LOGITECH® MK520 WIRELESS KEYBOARD & MOUSE COMBO
Warranty
3 Year Gold Warranty (2 Year Collect & Return, 2 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
PCS EXTRA-CARE DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND - MON-FRI, PRE-NOON
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 3 to 5 working days
Quantity
1

Price: £3,314.00 including VAT and delivery.

Unique URL to re-configure: http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/quotes/intel-x99-overclocked/5u2ZYwzBZ3/

 

[raymond a]

Thanks Scotster, Would there be enough muscle in any of those to satisfy the Cad AND Blu Ray needs [ not at the same time ]. I would not want to be "under powered " over yes, but under no.
cheers

 

[Stephen M]

Scotster's config should be well powerful enough, when you say Blu Ray, is that watching or video editing as well. If you are editing and even for CAD type work, you could consider a dual boot, there are a load of good freeware Linux programmes about and as they cost nothing, it is only the install time you have wasted if you do not like them

 

[raymond a]

Hi Stephen M. The Blu- Ray is more or less copying my collection of Ice Hockey matches from DVD onto Blu-Ray, also have lots stored on another PC's drive. I want everything onto Blu- Ray. I know the specs will handle the CAD ok [ Solidedge ] its just the Blu- Ray area that i'm not sure of.
I don't understand what you mean by " Dual boot " I'm not at all clued up on computers, hence all the questions.
cheers.

 

[Stephen M]

If it handles CAD it should handle Blu Ray. Dual booting is using two operating systems, in this case it would be Windows and a Linux OS, once both are installed when you first turn on the boot screen would give you a choice of which to launch. If it is just copying then there is probably no point but if you were thinking of editing it would help, a lot of good programmes that are free.

 

[Oussebon]

Is CAD not single-threaded? In which case the OCed i7 6700k would be both better and much cheaper?

AutoCAD Release 14 itself is not a thread-safe application and not really a multithreaded application. For AutoCAD 2000 and later, releases do have some support for dual processors and hyperthreading, but no more than two cores will be utilized. https://knowledge.autodesk.com/supp...threading-or-multiprocessor-capabilities.html

AutoCAD only supports multi-core technology in specific areas of the product, including:
•2D regeneration
•MentalRay rendering
To fully benefit from multi-core processors, you need to use multi-threaded software; AutoCAD is predominantly a single-threaded application.
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/supp...t-for-multi-core-processors-with-AutoCAD.html

 

[Scott]

Autocad will use multi-cores just not all the time. Similarly Solidedge I believe uses multi-cores for rendering. The multi-cores will also make a huge difference encoding video for the DVD-BR conversions. With the budget in mind I would definitely be going down the more cores approach. The slightly lower single core speed won't really be noticeable (less than 8% lower) against multi-core operations where you have almost 50% more processing power.

 

[Oussebon]

Similarly Solidedge I believe uses multi-cores for rendering.

Does it benefit from multiple cores so very much?
https://community.plm.automation.si...Blog/Solid-Edge-Tips-and-Tricks-1/ba-p/289915
https://community.plm.automation.si...ard-id/solid-edge-forum/thread-id/7356/page/1
https://community.plm.automation.si...d-Edge-start-using-multiple-Cores/td-p/286716
https://community.plm.automation.si...g-technology-benefit-Solid-Edge-s/td-p/263385

It seems the general recommendations - from people who actually use the software - are to prioritise core speed over multiple cores.

I like multiple cores as much as the next fellow, they're expensive and shiny, it just seems like everything is pointing towards the 6700k here....

less than 8% lower

Where did that number come from? if you're looking at the difference in MHz (7%) remember Skylake has a higher IPC than Broadwell...

And if the multiple cores aren't really used so much (which is what the people who use the software seem to say), the extra multithreaded performance (which won't be almost 50% - you can't just lazily say "Oh, spend £3300 on this, it has 50% more cores therefore 50% more multithreaded") may not be very relevant.

 

[Scott]

Does it benefit from multiple cores so very much?
https://community.plm.automation.si...Blog/Solid-Edge-Tips-and-Tricks-1/ba-p/289915
https://community.plm.automation.si...ard-id/solid-edge-forum/thread-id/7356/page/1
https://community.plm.automation.si...g-technology-benefit-Solid-Edge-s/td-p/263385
It seems the general recommendations are to prioritise core speed over multiple cores.

I like multiple cores as much as the next fellow it just seems like everything is pointing towards the 6700k here....

Where did that number come from? if you're looking at the difference in MHz (7%) remember Skylake has a higher IPC than Broadwell...

First link quote snip of the first paragraph....

Solid Edge is a single threaded application, and as such will only use a single CPU core. There are exceptions to this in Parasolid code such as drawing view VHL and part feature calculations. Simulation and rendering are also multithreaded. Use the Performance tab on the Windows Task Manager application as you work to monitor which areas of Solid Edge use multiple cores. In short, there’s nothing you can do to make better use of more cores aside from doing more drawings, FEA, and rendering.

I know it has a higher IPC, it's a newer gen chip afterall, I just don't think the slightly lower frequency and IPC translates to an effective enough performance difference to rule it out when multi-threaded operations are going to blow it out the water. I would certainly never compromise to go for Broadwell but this is most certainly a have it all budget.

 

[Oussebon]

In short, there’s nothing you can do to make better use of more cores aside from doing more drawings, FEA, and rendering.

*sigh*

Yes, I read that too. I also read:

1. Unless you do other activities that require multiple cores, like rendering, then less cores but faster is the better choice.

No, hyperthreading will not help much -- for any CAD program if just using the CAD program. The short story is Intel hyperthreads because they can't make individual CPUs go faster (physics) but the tech isn't there to make CAD software execute in 2 or more CPUs effectively.
Dan Staples
Director, Solid Edge Product Development

Let's add some more:

The dilema this presents is circular. Higher frequency architecture vs more cores plus ECC dependability when SE does not utilize multiple cores for 10 designers using it 95% of the time.

https://community.plm.automation.si...um/ST8-Best-Computer-Specs/td-p/316407/page/3

I have to agree with Ken here. Most CAD system only utilize a single core. Period. There are some Parasolid functions and hidden line removal functions that will utilize multiple cores but that is few and far between.
I would look at an i5-4670K processor vs the i7 or Xeon. You save around $100 right there for nearly the identical performance.
Having more cores allow to run MS applications in different cores but unless you are doing something serious there it's all overkill as we don't even begin to utilize all the cpu power and cores!

https://community.plm.automation.si...um/ST8-Best-Computer-Specs/td-p/316407/page/2

And by CPUs in that context he appears to mean cores/threads rather than CPUs like dual-xeon workstations.

Let's deal with that 50% shall we? Let's look at a stock 6700k vs a stock 6850k, which have base and boost frequencies 400MHz apart, quite similar to our 300MHz OC difference
https://ark.intel.com/compare/88195,94188
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1728?vs=1543
It's more like 25.6% than 50% difference for multithreaded. And the 6700k leads in single threaded by 19.7%.

I don't have benches of the 6800 / 6850k OCed vs the 6700k OCed sadly, so the above will have to do.

So what we have is:
- people who use the software saying that, despite the elements of using it that can use multiple cores such as rendering, it's still overall better to have fewer, faster cores
- the 6700k being ~25% slower for multithreaded, and 20% faster for single threaded - which is apparently more relevant.

The 6700k, as a bonus, is hundreds of £ cheaper.

I would certainly never compromise to go for Broadwell but this is most certainly a have it all budget.

I know you'd never not go for a 6 core+ if you could, as you do love this stuff. I'd love one too But frankly all the information seems to point to the 6700k being the better choice here.

I can't recommend the OP to ignore the advice of the Solid Edge community in favour of shiny shiny that performs worse overall and costs more.

I would certainly never compromise to go for Broadwell but this is most certainly a have it all budget.

The problem is that here, going for Broadwell-E over Skylake here is compromising on performance. it's not "have it all", it's "have it less". Unless the Solid Edge community knows less than you do about the product I suppose. It's possible.

 

[raymond a]

My CAD software is Solidedge, which is 3d

 

[Scott]

Those benches are a lot different to what I've been reading and also the comparisons I've been reading are in seconds of time to complete a task rather than FPS or % etc. It makes much more sense, to me, that a task is timed and the difference in seconds displayed is taken into account rather than the % difference. A task that takes 1 second for a 6700k to complete vs 1.2 sec for a 6850k to complete is negligible, yet as a statistic it's 20%. Statistics are massively skewed in most peoples favour to the point that people chose the statistics that makes their point.

The long and short of my point above is that in the real world there will be a negligible day to day difference between the 6700k and 6850k when it comes to actual time for single threaded applications but the actual difference in time when it comes to properly using multi-thread applications is going to be HUGE.

This is a good read...

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/intel-core-i7-broadwell-e-6950x-6900k-6850k-6800k,review-33569-3.html

Granted the tests were when the latest Broadwell chips were in their infancy (test chips) and they have gotten better, but it shows the difference that can be made when it comes to prosumer use.

FPS difference in game 1 - 2.2 fps 6700k faster - completely un-noticeable
FPS difference in game 2 - 12.1fps 6850k faster - Arguable difference, IMO at 100fps it's un-noticeable though.
Zip Compression - 6850k 130 seconds faster - no contest
Lame - 6700k 0.01 sec faster
Handbrake - 6850k 11 sec faster
Blender - 6850k 45 sec faster
Adobe - 6700k 0.05 sec faster
Adobe 2 - 6700k 0.13 sec faster
Adobe 3 - 6700k 0.33 sec faster
Adobe 4 - 6700k 1.4 sec faster
Adobe 5 - 6700k 0.15 sec faster


Etc, etc, etc. Basically my point is that the tasks where the 6700k is faster are insignificant, yet where the 6850k has an impact with it's additional cores it's not even in the same league. IF, and this is the key, the cores are going to be used effectively then it's no contest at all. The 6700k will very marginally win elsewhere but not by enough to consider it better, it's definitely better value in those instances though.

 

[Oussebon]

Well, you can see the debate above as to whether an i7 6700k (Skylake) with its faster and more powerful cores is a better option than an i7 6850k (Broadwell-E) with its more cores, and make your own mind up I guess.

As I'm in the "fewer but faster cores" camp I'd suggest waiting 1-2 weeks for the Kaby Lake CPUs to be released, as these are basically even faster version of Skylake (same IPC, but faster speeds). It may give 5-10% better performance above Skylake:
http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/99820-intel-core-i7-7700k-14nm-kaby-lake/?page=7
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/intel...ocking-performance-review,review-33719-2.html

 

[Oussebon]

Those benches are a lot different to what I've been reading

They're Cinebench scores off Anandtech as per the link. If you want to pick holes in an Anandtech review, be my guest I guess.

Pointing out the average difference in gaming isn't a very useful comparison since many games will at least make some kind of use of a few cores. If you want to use it as an analogy for a single threaded applications like CAD, then at least stick to a single-threaded game like GRID - where there's a ~23% difference in FPS. Unsurprisingly.

I take the point that as an individual task, a multithreaded one will likely take longer and so the % difference will be more visible.

I have to agree with Ken here. Most CAD system only utilize a single core. Period. There are some Parasolid functions and hidden line removal functions that will utilize multiple cores but that is few and far between.

when SE does not utilize multiple cores for 10 designers using it 95% of the time.

However I assume that the OP won't just perform one mouse click in CAD per day. I assume they will be doing a lot of little operations. In which case all of those smaller operations being done that happen 20% faster will add up to more productivity.

You could just as easily argue that a task that will take either 2 or 3 minutes is less of a gain than lots of little tasks taking a second or two less to do, because at least 2-3 minutes gives you time to get up and do something else like filing / making a cup of tea, whereas being sat there drumming fingers for a few seconds waiting for that small task to finish is just annoying.

We can argue benchmarks and %s until the cows come home but given that people who use the software all recommend the fewer, faster cores and that neither of us have turned up any evidence to the contrary, I can't see a good case for spending more on something that's overall slower and not recommended by the people who use the software.

For me, it's the fact that everyone on the Solid Edge forums are recommending fewer and faster cores.

 

[Scott]

Don't forget about the bluray encoding

I would also argue that the forum recommendation is based on stock clocks without taking boost clocks & overclocking into account. There isn't a scenario where I would recommend a stock 6850k over an overclocked 6700k. When both are overclocked it slims the margins quite a lot and only makes the multi-core margins wider.

 

[Oussebon]

Although you see recommendations of i5s over Xeons, where the difference in stock clocks is actually quite similar to the OCed clock + IPC difference. So I don't think that holds.

There is the Blu-ray encoding for sure, though a lot of the moving stuff off dvds and then to blu rays will overall end up being bottlenecked by the speed of the storage or indeed real-time anyway - as I recently rediscovered while waiting for something to stream copy off a couple of discs. :/