New PC - Photoshop experts?

[DSG]

Hi All

I would be grateful for any comments and advice on the following PC spec.

The most 'intensive' application I use is Photoshop. I want to be able to manipulate PSD files (20+ layers and large high res images - the biggest PSD currently on my PC is 250mb). I also use InDesign and sometimes Illustrator.

My main priority is for a fast, high power 'work' PC that will handle the above apps, last a long time (probably the last PC I'll buy) and be stable/reliable in operation.

I'm not worried about Gaming. If the spec can run Flight Sim well that might be fun - but it's not a priority. I don't do video editing and can't see that I ever would.

I added three SSDs because I will use one for OS and apps, the second for PS scratch disk and the third for all my files. Long term archived material is off the PC. I have read that trad spin disks are better for storing files with lots of read/write, but if I have to replace the SSD every few years I'm happy to do that if having the files on an SSD will be quicker than a spin disk when opening/saving/working on them day-to-day. I read opinion that Intel were good but do you think they are better than the Kingston or vice versa?

I added a sound card for listening to music and VOIP. I don't know whether the onboard sound would be enough for these uses and/or whether having a separate card would reduce demand on the board when multiple apps are running.

I particularly have no idea about Cases (don't much care what it looks like) or Motherboards so any comments about these would be welcome (or are they not important in terms of my usage?).

Also, despite reading various opinions, I'm not sure whether, for the apps I'm using, it is better to have 16GB of faster RAM or 32GB of slower RAM (or whether I'd notice the difference either way).

Budget is around £1500 net. If I can reduce the spec with no noticeable degrade in performance and save some money that would be great, but I don't want to compromise. Conversely, if spending a bit more would make a noticeable improvement in performance I'd consider that.

Cheers...

Case
STYLISH PIANO BLACK ENIGMA CASE + 2 FRONT USB
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-3820 (3.6GHz) 10MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® P9X79: INTEL® SOCKET LG2011
Memory (RAM)
16GB KINGSTON HYPERX GENESIS QUAD-DDR3 1600MHz X.M.P(4 x 4GB KIT)
Graphics Card
2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 - 2 DVI,HDMI,VGA - 3D Vision Ready
Memory - 1st Hard Disk
120GB INTEL® 520 SERIES SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
2nd Hard Disk
120GB INTEL® 520 SERIES SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
3rd Hard Disk
240GB INTEL® 520 SERIES SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Memory Card Reader
INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT
Power Supply
600W Quiet 80 PLUS Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£59)
Processor Cooling
INTEL SOCKET LGA2011 STANDARD CPU COOLER
Sound Card
Creative Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ Xtreme Audio (£32)
Network Facilities
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT - AS STANDARD ON ALL PCs
USB Options
2 PORT USB 3.0 INTERNAL PCI-EX CARD + STANDARD USB PORTS
Operating System
Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence
Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Warranty
3 Year Platinum Warranty (3 Year Collect & Return, 3 Year Parts, 3 Year labour) (£135)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 10 to 12 working days
Quantity
1

 

[Wolvo7]

Hello,

Are you sure that you want 3 SSDs? The price is still pretty high and you may be better off getting a Caviar Black for your files, especially if you work with large ones. But if you're absolutely looking for performance over storage, go for it.

Regarding your build I'd up the case a bit just to allow for better cooling and airflow, and I'd go for the 3770 over the 3820, as it is faster: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/523?vs=551

I also upped your CPU cooler a notch and went for the Corsair PSU which is more reliable.

You can go with a sound card but without good quality headphones or speakers that plug in the sound card you won't really notice a difference. Onboard sound is pretty good nowadays.

For the RAM you won't notice a difference in speed if you're not overclocking the CPU, I just kept the 1600Mhz cuz it looks better but you could easily go for the 1333Mhz. Photoshop uses all the RAM you can throw at it but 16GB is already plenty even for video editing so you should be fine. You can always add more later on it's really easy.


Case
COOLERMASTER HAF 912 PLUS MID TOWER GAMING CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-3770 (3.4GHz) 8MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® P8Z77-V LX: USB 3.0, SATA 6GBs, ATI®CrossFireX
Memory (RAM)
16GB KINGSTON HYPER-X GENESIS DUAL-DDR3 1600MHz, X.M.P (4 x 4GB KIT)
Graphics Card
2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 - 2 DVI,HDMI,VGA - 3D Vision Ready
Memory - 1st Hard Disk
120GB INTEL® 520 SERIES SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
2nd Hard Disk
120GB INTEL® 520 SERIES SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
3rd Hard Disk
240GB INTEL® 520 SERIES SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Memory Card Reader
INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT
Power Supply
CORSAIR 650W ENTHUSIAST SERIES™ TX650 V2-80 PLUS® BRONZE (£69)
Processor Cooling
SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE INTEL CPU COOLER (£19)
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Facilities
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT - AS STANDARD ON ALL PCs
USB Options
2 PORT USB 3.0 INTERNAL PCI-EX CARD + STANDARD USB PORTS
Operating System
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence
Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour) (£5)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 10 to 12 working days
Quantity
1

Price: £1,448.00 including VAT and delivery.

Configure Here: http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/quotes/intel-ivy-bridge-pc/aP_YIvx9H5/

 

[DSG]

Hi Wolve7

Many thanks for your response. I see you changed the mobo as well as case and psu, and I'll go with all of those recommendations.

Are you sure that you want 3 SSDs? The price is still pretty high and you may be better off getting a Caviar Black for your files, especially if you work with large ones. But if you're absolutely looking for performance over storage, go for it.

No, I'm not sure lol. I've read so much about SSDs my head is spinning. There are so many opposing views and I've tried to 'balance' them in my mind. I know they have finite write cycles but that the number isn't something I'll worry about over a short period, and if I have to replace an SSD after 2-3 years that's OK.

Some say putting the OS and Apps on an SSD means fast boot and fast program start - others say you only start the PC once so why does it matter how long it takes and that once you've launched a prog the first time it'll load faster on subsequent occasions. But I like the idea of fast.

I read that SSDs are ideal for scratch disks due to their speed - but against that the constant writing is bad. A separate SSD seemed like a good idea in case it fails more quickly due to the writes. I am still trying to discover whether it's better to have the OS pagefile (and possibly system restore) on a separate drive to the OS - and if so, would putting these on the same drive as the PS scratch be a good idea or would it defeat the object if pagefile and scratch are being used at the same time?

For the files, one problem is I don't know exactly what happens when you work on a file. If PS is on drive C: and image or PSD files are on drive D:, when I open the file in PS is the 'working area' for the file in the same folder as the file, in the PS folder, or does PS shunt it to the user temp folder?

I assume that files on an SSD would open much faster than on a HDD (a 250mb PSD takes ages to load on my PC). But whether that would still be a major concern with a much faster cpu, more ram and with the OS and PS app on an SSD I don't know. You suggested a possible alternative of a Caviar Black. Apart from cost, is there a reason you don't suggest the Velociraptor (10k spin speed)? If by 'storage' you mean space, I keep a fairly tight PC - currently around 70GB of either working files or material that is useful to have 'instant' access to, so I don't need masses of drive storage space. Archived material gets taken off the pc to a portable HD.

...and I'd go for the 3770 over the 3820, as it is faster: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/523?vs=551

I should have checked Anandtech. Hmm...they only have the 3770k version - I thought K chips were capable of being overclocked so are those benchmarks based on the 3770k in 'native' format or with overclocking? I don't know why a chip with slightly slower GHz and less L2 cache would be faster, but the benchmarks say it is.

You can go with a sound card but without good quality headphones or speakers that plug in the sound card you won't really notice a difference. Onboard sound is pretty good nowadays.

I need to get a better headphone/speaker kit for VOIP but I'm not looking for mega high fidelity music. Apart from sound quality, would a separate card reduce load on the mobo during VOIP - ie reduce the risk of stuttering or dropouts if the PC was working on something (like a PS file) during a VOIP call?

For the RAM you won't notice a difference in speed if you're not overclocking the CPU, I just kept the 1600Mhz cuz it looks better but you could easily go for the 1333Mhz. Photoshop uses all the RAM you can throw at it but 16GB is already plenty even for video editing so you should be fine. You can always add more later on it's really easy.

Re the above comments about the pagefile and scratch, if there's plenty of RAM then neither of these should be used too much. Is 16mb enough for this - is 32mb overkill or would that pretty much eliminate the use of pagefile or scratch?

Again, many thanks for your help.

 

[keynes]

For CS5 more ram would be better
the SSD intel 520 comes with a 5 year warranty
The benchmarks were at stock levels (no overclocking)

 

[Wolvo7]

As Ruben said CS5 uses as much RAM as you can throw at it but depending on what you're working with you may not really see a difference. Also the 32GB option is about £150 more expensive than the 16GB which would bring you a bit over budget.

I'm not really an expert in Photoshop but I'd recommend reading these 2 pages if you haven't already as they offer sound advice for each drive.

http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb...cs4-cs5.html#main_Use_a_fast__large_hard_disk
http://blogs.adobe.com/crawlspace/2011/05/how-to-tune-photoshop-cs5-for-peak-performance.html#data

Regarding Caviar Black vs Velociraptor you can read an extensive review here:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/wd-black-2tb-vr600/
Basically there's not much of a difference in speed for the price difference from what I get from this review.

Also as Ruben said there's no difference between the 3770 and 3770k at stock levels and the review was conducted at stock speeds.

I wouldn't imagine that a discrete sound card would improve mobo load, but get a second opinion on that

 

[DSG]

Hi Ruben and Wolvo

Thanks to both of you. Things are becoming more clear.

Wolvo - I'd seen the two PS pages but they don't help overmuch as one says no benefit of putting scratch on separate drive to OS if you have SSD while the other says they should be split (although it's not clear if at that point the article is talking about SSD or HDD).

I'll amend my spec with case/mobo/cpu recommendations and up the RAM to 32mb (1333 since I understand there's no noticeable benefit to faster RAM if you're not overclocking), which just leaves the question of the drives.

If I have 32mb RAM and that means little gets written to scratch or pagefile, by having the second SSD dedicated to these I might end up having a drive there that's hardly ever used. On the other hand, if constant read/write cycles does reduce the lifetime it would be easier (whether or not there's a 5 year guarantee) to swop out the 'empty' drive than to swop the main drive and have to reinstall the OS and apps. But maybe it's a costly way to get that.

That leaves the third drive. If PS app is on SSD drive 1 and data/image files are held on drive 3 (and assuming any 'work' by the app on the images is done on drive 3), do you know how much difference in speed there will be when opening/manipulating the images if drive 3 is SSD or Caviar Black (I read the comparison with the Velociraptor and will stick with your recommendation)?

Also, if I switch drive 3 to the Caviar Black, would your recommendations on case/cooling/mobo change?

Cheers...

 

[keynes]

The case you originally chosen is a basic case, I'd go for something with better cooling and cable management, coolermaster 690 II?
http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/pc-images/1961/

 

[DSG]

Opps..sorry...I meant that I'd go with the 'upgrade' in Wolvo's spec - the Coolermaster HAF 912. Would you recommend the 690 over that?

Cheers...

 

[keynes]

Opps..sorry...I meant that I'd go with the 'upgrade' in Wolvo's spec - the Coolermaster HAF 912. Would you recommend the 690 over that?

Cheers...

The 690 is a bit bigger and can fit more fans.

 

[keynes]

If I have 32mb RAM and that means little gets written to scratch or pagefile, by having the second SSD dedicated to these I might end up having a drive there that's hardly ever used. On the other hand, if constant read/write cycles does reduce the lifetime it would be easier (whether or not there's a 5 year guarantee) to swop out the 'empty' drive than to swop the main drive and have to reinstall the OS and apps. But maybe it's a costly way to get that.

You can disable pagefile
http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?14728-SSD-Management
If intel offers 5 year warranty on the 520 SSD, I'd expect it to last more than 5 years, I would not worry about that.

 

[DSG]

Hmm...having belatedly actually looked at the case specs (finding that clicking on them does just that), it would be useful to max the number of front ports. Is the Phantom 410 the next step up?

Headphone/microphone on the front would probably be useful for VOIP, and 2 USB2 is good, but the Phantom has 2 USB3 as well (I know USB3 peripherals are scarce at the moment but that might change and in the meantime they can be used for USB2 connections).

As I've opted for the 2 USB3 plus standard (6) USB2, that would give four USB2 on the back with 2 USB2 and 2USB3 on the front.

Would that case still be good for the rest of the spec?

Cheers...

Cheers...

 

[keynes]

Hmm...having belatedly actually looked at the case specs (finding that clicking on them does just that), it would be useful to max the number of front ports. Is the Phantom 410 the next step up?

Headphone/microphone on the front would probably be useful for VOIP, and 2 USB2 is good, but the Phantom has 2 USB3 as well (I know USB3 peripherals are scarce at the moment but that might change and in the meantime they can be used for USB2 connections).

As I've opted for the 2 USB3 plus standard (6) USB2, that would give four USB2 on the back with 2 USB2 and 2USB3 on the front.

Would that case still be good for the rest of the spec?

Cheers...

Cheers...

I personally do not like the look of it, I'd go with the Storm Trooper and I am sure it would give you pretty good cooling compare to other cases. The Phantom would be fine with your spec.

 

[DSG]

...and sorry, another question...you mentioned space for more fans...do I need to specify number of fans or does the spec including choice of case automatically do that?

 

[keynes]

...and sorry, another question...you mentioned space for more fans...do I need to specify number of fans or does the spec including choice of case automatically do that?

No, if the case can fit 10 fans it doesn't mean it would come with all the fans since some fans are optional. To check the number of fans included with the case I'd look at the manufacturers website, when I ordered my rig I purchased additional fans and sent them to PCS and they kindly fitted those for me.

 

[DSG]

Did you mean Storm Enforcer?

(I know I'm a Philistine to gamers but the PC will sit under my desk and I'm not all that fussed what it looks like, although I'd probably consider lack of bright lights and Darth Vadar features as a benefit LOL). Best case for cooling, longevity, ease of access and compatible with my spec would be my aim.

 

[keynes]

Storm Trooper:
http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/pc-images/2763/

Not this one:

 

[DSG]

Ah yes, I stopped at the Storm Enforcer and didn't click far enough along to find the Trooper.

Are those red lights on the front an artistic addition to the image or actually on the case? Are they static or do they move around? I think I might find that distracting if working in low ambient light.

Many thanks for all your help.

I'll take on board all the comments and rethink the spec, and then perhaps put the revised one up here and be grateful for any final comments or confirmation that it looks good.

Cheers...

 

[keynes]

Ah yes, I stopped at the Storm Enforcer and didn't click far enough along to find the Trooper.

Are those red lights on the front an artistic addition to the image or actually on the case? Are they static or do they move around? I think I might find that distracting if working in low ambient light.

Many thanks for all your help.

I'll take on board all the comments and rethink the spec, and then perhaps put the revised one up here and be grateful for any final comments or confirmation that it looks good.

Cheers...

I am not sure if they fans are red led, you may need to ask PCS. But it is static and there is a led button to turn it off.

 

[Wolvo7]

Yeah the Storm Trooper is a really good case, but a bit expensive (we've gone from the £14 case in your original build to the £119 one , just a matter of time till we reach the £319 one ^^). All kidding aside if you can afford the Storm Trooper go for it it's a great case and it looks really nice, plus it has lots of features like the front USB 3.0 ports that you want.

I guess what you could do is get an SSD for your 1st drive as this will improve both booting and application loading, not just Photoshop.

For the scratch disk, how much RAM do you have at the moment? Does PS uses all of it and overflows onto the scratch disk? If so how much space does it usually use on the scratch disk when you're working (if there's a way to know that)?
You could get a smaller SSD for the scratch disk, like a 90GB one, which would be used when you're working if PS actually needs more than your 32GB of RAM.

For the data drive you can get a Caviar black as this will only affect the opening and saving times. If you are ok with waiting a bit longer for large files to save and load in exchange for more space for data storage, then that would be the best option. If not then getting 3 SSDs would offer the best performance overall.

 

[DSG]

Ha..true.

In my defence, for the original spec I just left the case at the default (I didn't actively choose it) since I know nowt about case technology and assumed it would be suitable as the system didn't flag any objections when I saved the spec. You upped it to the Haf and Ruben to the 690, then I actually looked at the specs (I hadn't realised that was possible) and thought extra USB ports on the front might be useful, then Ruben upped again on my suggestion.

I don't need a 'feature' case that looks ubercool, just one that will give the right amount of cooling and easy access to internal components. In some ways a plainer 'don't bother stealing me because I'm a boring old pc' case would have benefits over 'look at me yee-haa' styles.

I'll have SSD on drive 1 for OS and apps, for sure.

I'm almost too embarrassed to tell you that I currently work on a Pentium PC with an eye-watering ssshh...2GB of RAM (so scratch gets used a lot and can grow to several GB if I open several PSDs at the same time). The OS is WinXP, which has been great but performance degrade as all the Windows Reg hits take effect has become increasingly noticeable. It's not worth the effort of reinstalling because there's not much room to upgrade the spec of the existing PC - XP can't handle much more RAM, and the latest PS really needs iX cpu, 64bit OS (CS5 might work on 64bit XP but it's not supported) and loadsaram. On the spec system I used on the pc specialist website there was no smaller SSD option like 90 or even 60, which would be enough for my needs. I would hope that 32GB RAM, however, would mean no need for scratch or pagefile.

If I cut back to one SSD for OS/apps and one SSD or Caviar for files, presumably I could add a small SSD later if I monitored pagefile and scratch activity and found lots of it?

I'm still thinking about SSD vs Caviar. It's the opening/saving (especially of large PSD files) that I want to be fast. I'm not worried about total storage space.

Ah well. If I can save some cash without degrading performance I'll be happy, but the main thing I want is to end up with a PC that will be a joy to use for the foreseeable future.

Cheers...