Nostalgia, Legacy Computing.

SimonPeters116

Well-known member
In replying to a comment in the Incoming thread, I inadvertently started dragging it off topic. So I've opened this one.

What has been involved in your computing journey??

I'll start by re-posting my original:-
The computer I'm using now, I built it originally and upgraded it. The one before was the same. The one before that was built by my local computer shop, then upgraded by me later. The one before that was the same.
I still have a set of 3.5" floppy discs, with DOS 6.2 and Windows 3.1 on, I don't remember the specs of the first computer that was installed on. I do remember being excited at buying an Intel 386 cpu, and there was a turbo mode 😮 😆
Before any of those I had a Commodore 64, with cassette drive. You used to buy books of games, yes I said BOOKS. They had C+ code for the games printed in them, 10 - 15 games in a book. You had to transcribe the code and save it onto cassette, then load the game. They rarely worked. So I used to print them off on my daisy wheel printer, check them against the book line by line, to make sure I hadn't misplaced a dot or space etc. Then I'd break it down, rewrite it so the nested if-thens were in the correct order, etc and make them work. Load them, they became playable eventually, but they were really, really __________ <Fill in your own expletive here. I gave up after a few games. Learning C+ was fun, but when all the hard work resulted in junk I got bored. (I think it was C+, could've been C++, it was a long time ago)

I also remember going into Edinburgh, to a big computer peripherals shop, to buy a modem card. This was then installed into a slot on my motherboard. I'd started looking under the bonnet :)
Suddenly we had INTERNET :D
It was dial-up internet, @ something like 514kb/sec (514 rings a bell, but I'm not sure).
It was connected directly to the phone line, one or the other, not both, if you only had 1 phone line coming into the house. Most people did.
At the time, everyone was giving away internet packages on disc. AOL was a BIG player, Tesco had their own branded package, Freeserve was the one I went for. If you were sensible, ie Scottish and "careful with your money", you had your dial-up internet provider on your "friends" list with BT. Using internet in the evenings and weekends only would be 1p (£0.01) per minute. After installing the software, unplugging your phone and plugging in your computer, there it was, The Internet. Not forgetting the 'Dial-Up handshake', which is what you still get if you dial up a fax machine on your phone, but this was both sides of the handshake.
**** on tap 😲, but downloading a photo took a few minutes, you could watch the picture coming in, pixel by pixel, line by line.
Forums (Fora?) like this one were still in the future, but they were already on the horizon. We had special interest chat-rooms, (not called chat-rooms, but I can't bring it to mind). There would be a huge range of computer chat-rooms, like PCSpecialist, Radio hams, Tuning Ford Escorts, Trucking. Every subject you can think of, and probably more than a few you'd rather not. You could now chat with people who shared the same interest, all over The World, for a penny a minute. Amazing :D

And then Broadband, and personal internet exploded into the WWW as we now know it.
It had been knocking along quite happily at dial-up speeds, slowly expanding, but everyone wanted faster. With broadband, we got it :D
 
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SimonPeters116

Well-known member
I also remember starting off using AOL as my ISP. AOL gave you a free 3 month trial period, then you started paying. The reason for me doing that was because AOL protected their users from 'unintended mistakes', like connecting to spam sites. So I used them for the free 3 months, to get used to using the internet with a safety umbrella. Then I went to Freeserve. Occasionally I'd click on a link, and then decide 'no that isn't what I was looking for' and close it. Only to find another 6 pop-ups would open. Try to close them, but another 6 pop-ups opened for each one. The only way to stop them was to disconnect from the internet and close down Internet Explorer. Then start again. Yes, we already had spam, and data miners, and everything else we still have now. You needed an Antivirus even in dial-up days :(

I also eventually found Navigator, which has evolved into Mozilla. With that discovery came other Open Source software. Open Office, Gimp and Audacity, among others. Microsoft was holding hands with PhotoShop and the audio equivalent, I can't remember that ones name, and MS's Office Suite. They are all expensive. There were lots of Office Suite programmes, Corel was another one. They all had their own proprietary file types, none of them were compatible with any other office suite, but Open Office would open them all, and could save the file in any other file type, including their own open document file. O.O. was also pushing for an all encompassing Office Suite set of file types, even back in the 90s. That has now come into effect. MS won't tell you that they fought against it, for decades, but it's now the default file type with most Office Suite suppliers, including MS. I think it’s .odt, for text documents, and the equivalent for spreadsheets etc.

And I'm not the only one who's not keen on how MS wants us all to follow it's lead and hold our hands. Linux has been around for as long as Windows. I'm using Linux to encompass any other Operating System build. I think it's the only viable competitor left, and even then it's kind of niche. There are also many different builds of Linux, and my mind has gone blank, I can only think of the Red 'something' build. Red Rooster?????
Like all Open Source software, it isn't as 'intuitive' or as slick as the MS products. You have to learn how to use it, to get the best out of it, but imho, that's all to the good, and it's part of the point. It isn't just a few button clicks to manipulate a photo, like it is in Photoshop. Using Gimp, there's a bit more that you have to do, which teaches you about photo manipulation itself.
I've never got into Linux, never even tried it. Too comfortable with Windows I expect, and it's too easy. I might give it a try when I retire. I'll have more time available to me then.
 

SimonPeters116

Well-known member
I'm sure the mods will manage that, if they feel there's a need :)
I'm a mod on a truck drivers forum. We're quite good at that sort of thing :D

More to the point, what did you start off with, and how did it all progress up to this point ? :)
I'm trying to include everything. I've never tried Linux, for eg, but I'm certain that some in here will have and probably still do.
I'd be interested in the whys and wherefores of that as well. Especially from the early days.

There is bound to be people who started on gaming consoles, who then moved over to PC's, and may still use a game console. What led you to the PC?

My memories are a bit shakey on some details. If I've got them wrong, please correct me as well.
I remember the 386 cpu's and the corresponding 486 gpu's. I was trying to remember if they were Pentium, until the penny dropped. Pent-, 5 of. Pentangle, Pentagram, 5 sided geometric shape, 5 pointed star. So I also remember Pentium cpu's coming on stream, and the excitement over that step up :D

Let us all see your memories of the evolution of PC's and software.
 

TonyCarter

VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
There's no way I'll remember the individual computers...but the first was probably the BBC Micro or Commodore PET at grammar school in the early 1980s.

Once I decided to become a systems analyst, I needed a bit of programming knowledge to increase my chances, so I went to college (in 1988) and learnt COBOL (as well as a bit of Fortran and PL1) using IBM AS/400, IBM XT, IBM AT, variants of Apricot & Olivetti DOS PCs. Just before I left, some of our PCs later with the GEM GUI, and finally Windows.

Whilst I was waiting for my BIG COMPUTER CAREER to take off, I took some agency placements for 'computer operator' and it was only when I got to the first client (a global management consultancy business) that I found out they were using Apple Macs. Picked the OS and programs up in about a day, and I've been doing that on Mac and PC since then - although the DTP part is minimal now as I do lots of other stuff once the consultants have left, and I tend to stay at the end client for a few more years to gradually handover the knowledge/project to the end-client employees.

Operating systems used so far:
  • IBM PC DOS 3/4/5
  • DR DOS 3/4/5
  • MS DOS 3/4/5
  • OS/400
  • GEM
  • Windows 3.x / NT.x / 95 / 98 / XP / 7 / 10 / 11
  • Mac System 6.x / 7.x
  • MacOS 8.x / 9.x / X.x / 11.x / 12.x
Computers used so far:
  • Commodore PET
  • BBC Micro B
  • AS/400
  • IBM XT
  • IBM AT
  • Variations of the above from Apricot & Olivetti
  • Mac SE / SE30
  • Macintosh II
  • Macintosh LC
  • Apple Powerbook (this is the horrible device that started my hatred towards the laptop form factor)
  • Apple Quadra (700 / 840AV / 950)
  • Apple PowerMac (G3 / G4 / G5)
  • Apple Mac Pro (2008 octo-core)
  • Apple iMac (always had one for home and a smaller screen version for travelling)
  • Mac Mini
  • Apple Studio
This is my current 'office configuration' - although that small iMac is just there doing updates before it goes travelling with me.

IMG_5436.jpg
 
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SimonPeters116

Well-known member
@TonyCarter , was the Commodore PET or BBC Micro B a system at home, or the ones you used at school?
I left school at 17, in '76, and moved up to uni', no gap year. Uni' chucked me out after 2nd year exams, realising I'd just been winging it.
We didn't have computers, there was no such thing as computer studies, pocket calculators were about the size large, slim mobile phones are now. We'd had some lessons involving desk top calculators, that was the technology then, one classrooms worth of desk top calculators.
But when we bought our Commodore 64 (85/86ish?), schools were getting computers for students to use. I seem to remember one system was the BBC and there's a vague notion that Commodore PET may have been another one.
 

SimonPeters116

Well-known member
I did CSE computer studies in about 74-75, and ended up with with a "U" trying to code in Basic using cards and a grade "B" pencil
Really 😮
What type of school was that? Grammar, Secondary Modern or? And what was a "U", good, or bad? 😁

I know next to nothing about the English Ed' system, as I went through the Scottish one. One difference I do know, sort of. One was set and organised by Oxford, the other by Cambridge. I don't know why, but I was led to believe that Scottish O levels and Highers were considered to be slightly better than the English equivalents.
We moved up from Primary to Secondary at 12yo, did 2 years of a wide range of subjects, then chose what O Levels you wanted to do at the end of 2nd year. 3rd and 4th year were O level study, finishing with the exams. If your teachers didn't think you were likely to pass an SCE O level, you went into the CSE class, but could move to the O level if you were doing well enough. I did 7 O levels, the only time I wasn't in an O level class was the 2 gym periods and the double games period. I moved up to Senior High with 6 O levels, English wasn't mentioned on the Cert' at all. We did our Higher exams at the end of 5th year. Grades were A+, the top very few percent of all A grades, B, C, D and E, A to C were down to 50%, D and Es were 50-40 and 40-30%, but not a fail though 🤔
Computer studies, to the best of my memory, wasn't ever even mentioned as an option.
 

TonyCarter

VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
The BBC Micro was in a computer class…which was a new, optional class that started in my penultimate grammar/secondary school year. The PET was also in school, but was used by some of us in the physics class…can’t remember what it was used for in physics as I just used it to right simple programs from a ‘Basic for beginners’ book.
 

SimonPeters116

Well-known member
In Scotland, at that time, you never failed, there wasn't a "U", it was just not mentioned, as if you hadn't taken it. D or E were 'just' low percentage passes :D I resat English 'O', no Eng' Lit' and Eng' Lang' in Scotland, and got a B, at the same time as Highers.
A, B and C were 100 to 50%. But A+ was a different % score every year, it was the top 5% (I think) of all the A grade students. So the % score could vary from year to year, depending on what the top 5% had scored in the exams. Year work wasn't included, only the final exam counted.

@TonyCarter you've said MS DOS 3/4/5. I haven't checked, because my case of floppy discs is buried, but I'm sure I've got MS(?) DOS 6.2, which was installed with Windows 3.1 over it. But I'm sure it's that way around, because we then got Windows 95(4), Win 98(4.5), Win 2K(5), Win XP(5.5?) Vista(6) and then Win 7 etc, which all include DOS. So I'm wondering why you haven't included MS DOS 6, or was that just an oversight?
In allocating numbers to the intermediate versions of Windows, it's just guess work, and I might have put a couple in the wrong order as well. I skipped 2K and Vista and had 95, 98, XP, 7 and now 10. So I've lost track of exactly where 2K and Vista came in the sequence. They were 20 years ago after all 😁

What happened to Win 9 by the way ??
 
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TonyCarter

VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
Not included later versions of DOS as I was mostly working in the Mac environment by then.

But if I was using one of the earlier versions of Windows with a DOS underpinning, I'd probably not need to know the DOS version...in a similar way that I don't know what BASH/ZSH versions MacOSX uses for command line operations or what FreeBSD version MacOSX is built on.

The only time I go anywhere near command lines in Windows or MacOS now is when I've got to troubleshoot something or put arguments into an app launcher.

Haven't touched COBOL in 30 years, and the only 'coding' I do is Excel VBA...and I'm doing less and less of that now as we have central tools to do most of it so that we all end up with the same-looking outputs in PowerBI or Qlik. We can't even automate a lot of it because the data we get from our partners each week/month come in random formats & order (with a few common columns across them all).

My only qualification in computing is a Distinction Pass in "City & Guilds 424 in Applications Programming (COBOL)" in 1988 (or 89). Strangely we took 2 tests the same day, as the examination board send the wrong one, so everyone was panicking as the task was more complicated than the ones we'd been running from previous papers...and we found out after we'd finished that it was the advanced 425 level we'd taken.

The got the correct one faxed to us and we had to re-sit it in the afternoon.

The 424 was relatively easy after struggling with the 425 one in the morning...although they never marked the 425 one, so I don't know how well I would have done.
 
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SimonPeters116

Well-known member
Sorry to tell you that, but ...
View attachment 34779


worry not, i'm already outside :D

Yeah, we know. That's why it's Nostalgia to some of us, not History :ROFLMAO:

TonyCarter
Not included later versions of DOS as I was mostly working in the Mac environment by then.
Ah, OK, fair enough.
I've no idea what DOS version is underpinning Windows now, not since 95 in fact. It hasn't been an issue. Win ** comes with DOS, as a complete package, there's no need to know.
 
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SimonPeters116

Well-known member
I've been tidying up and clearing out of my computer desk this week. Because the Gigabyte M34WQ 😃 is going to take up the full width of it, and be a bit taller than my present monitor. I need a new desk, but this one will have to do for now
Anyway, one of the things I'd forgotten all about was an anti-static bag. Which contained :-

An AK3 Mainboard Users manual. This is for an 80386 CPU, with either Award or AMI BIOS.
On the installation of SIMM DRAMs, you have 2 banks, 0 and 1, 0 being the primary bank. 4 slots for each bank.
Max is 32 MB 😊 and under note 2 The 80ns or faster page mode DRAM is required.
A Seagate Drive Installation Guide for the ST325A/X, for AT or XT Interface. I can't figure out what size of drive it was.
I've got a sheet of paper with some notes on it. C:\ 46000KB free, 70536KB Total.
The Quick Shot Mouse Users Manual, for a ball mouse. It's bigger than the mainboard user manual.
A UN-1075, Super I/O Card installation guide. It's a Peripheral card with an RS232 9 pin connector and a 25 pin parallel printer port. It'll connect up an extra IDE HDD, floppy drive, has a game port and 2 serial ports (10 pin)
There's also the deposit and final sales receipt totalling £450, dated Feb 94, for 386 computer and SVGA Monitor, with DOS 6.2.
There was also the manual for a Logitech Internet Navigator Keyboard, but that's Win 98 or higher. And the registration card for a Microsoft product, dated 97, with a Microsoft Certificate of Authenticity. And the 3.5" Original MS DOS 6.2 floppy discs 😮
 
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