Some questions on laptops?

[blackcoffee17]

Hello,

I am looking to buy my new laptop and found a couple of good candidates.
Ideally looking for something powerful but at the same time lightweight, portable and with dedicated graphics (video editing mainly).

So here are a few configs and my problems with them:

Ionico 15 inch:

Why the Ryzen 5800H is not available and why we are forced to buy the much more expensive 3070 GPU if we want the
Ryzen 5900HX? I don't need the strongest GPU, the 3060 would be more than enough and don't want to pay
a couple £100 extra for the 3070.

14 Fusion Studio and 15 Fusion Studio:

The 14 inch looks great, especially because it's so light and thin while having upgradeable RAM and SSD. However only having
integrated Iris Graphics is a bit disappointing.
But what I don't get is why the bigger 15 Studio comes with soldered RAM? It doesn't make any sense to
have 2 memory slots in the smaller 14 inch and soldered RAM on the bigger laptop...

 

[SpyderTracks]

Hello,

I am looking to buy my new laptop and found a couple of good candidates.
Ideally looking for something powerful but at the same time lightweight, portable and with dedicated graphics (video editing mainly).

So here are a few configs and my problems with them:

Ionico 15 inch:

Why the Ryzen 5800H is not available and why we are forced to buy the much more expensive 3070 GPU if we want the
Ryzen 5900HX? I don't need the strongest GPU, the 3060 would be more than enough and don't want to pay
a couple £100 extra for the 3070.

14 Fusion Studio and 15 Fusion Studio:

The 14 inch looks great, especially because it's so light and thin while having upgradeable RAM and SSD. However only having
integrated Iris Graphics is a bit disappointing.
But what I don't get is why the bigger 15 Studio comes with soldered RAM? It doesn't make any sense to
have 2 memory slots in the smaller 14 inch and soldered RAM on the bigger laptop...

As with anything there are different configurations to fit different budgets and use cases.

Soldered RAM is pretty standard now on a thin and light that's how they get them so thin. If you wanted sodimms then the pro has that.

The reason amd build options are thin is because of supply and demand, they were incredibly popular and in short supply so sold out quite quickly.

 

[blackcoffee17]

A few months ago the Ionico 15 was available with the Ryzen 5800H. Will that CPU ever come back?

Also, why is the RTX3060 not available with the 5900HX?

 

[Martinr36]

you'd have to ask PCS directly

 

[blackcoffee17]

Thanks for the reply.
My issue is that why a thinner and lighter laptop (the PRO) has sodimms while the heaver and thicker one has soldered one?

 

[SpyderTracks]

Thanks for the reply.
My issue is that why a thinner and lighter laptop (the PRO) has sodimms while the heaver and thicker one has soldered one?

That's pretty standard on thin and lights,that's how they get them so thin.

 

[Rakk]

Soldered RAM is pretty standard now on a thin and light that's how they get them so thin. If you wanted sodimms then the pro has that.

Thanks for the reply.
My issue is that why a thinner and lighter laptop (the PRO) has sodimms while the heaver and thicker one has soldered one?

That's pretty standard on thin and lights,that's how they get them so thin.

I think BlackCoffee17 was asking why the heavier thicker one had soldered RAM (personally I have no idea, but then I know very little about laptops)

 

[SpyderTracks]

I think BlackCoffee17 was asking why the heavier thicker one had soldered RAM (personally I have no idea, but then I know very little about laptops)

Oh sorry, I'd got it completely backwards!

I have no idea in that case. Often more budget units will have fully soldered parts if they're low power.

 

[SpyderTracks]

A few months ago the Ionico 15 was available with the Ryzen 5800H. Will that CPU ever come back?

Also, why is the RTX3060 not available with the 5900HX?

The 3060 not being available with that processor is likely because they've run out of stocks. The GPUs and CPUs are part of the chassis, they're not modular cards but soldered into the board.

But you'd need to ask PCS about stock levels it's not something we could answer.

 

[blackcoffee17]

I am looking at the laptop offers and wondering why are prices so high compared to the competition.

For example the 15.6 Fusion Studio (https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/fusion-studio-15/).

i7 1165G7 4 core CPU with only integrated Intel Xe graphics and the cheapest 1TB SSD at £1220.

Compare this to the a competitor:

Ryzen 9 5900HS, 8 core, 16GB RAM, Nvidia 3050Ti (much better than the integrated Xe), 1TB SSD, touchscreen, magnesium build and weight only 1.3kg.
All this for £1149.

How are the 2 configs even comparable? And there are other examples too (like Zenbooks or Lenovo Yoga).

Same situation with the 14 Fusion Studio (https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/fusion-studio-14/). At least this laptop
has replaceable RAM and SSD but still, the price seems a bit high.

 

[SpyderTracks]

You're comparing entirely different platforms for a start, Intel is significantly more expensive than AMD in mobile form factor. It's not a fair comparison. That's aside from the different form factors as well, notebooks always command a high premium because of the design that needs to go into the cooling, plus the vastly improved battery life. But the Fusion vs the Ryzen are for 2 entirely different uses, they're not comparable.

We can only comment on PCSpecialist laptops, but if you take for example the AMD DTR (Destian) vs the Intel DTR (Recoil) the price difference at the outset is about £500 for the base model and that's a 3070 on the Destian and a 3060 on the Recoil.

Both platforms have benefits and weaknesses.

AMD currently doesn't support PCIe 4, so slower drive availability as a result. But they run significantly cooler and are better at multithreaded workloads.

Intel peaks in single core performance but at the cost of heat and battery life.

But any AMD laptop is far better value overall than intel, it's just the way it is. This is precisely why there are so few AMD laptops available to buy, they sell out awfully quickly.

 

[blackcoffee17]

Thanks for the reply.

I understand the Intel is more expensive but those 2 configs are not even comparable in overall performance/features. Especially because of the dedicated graphics the Asus can be used for much more GPU-heavy applications like video editing.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Thanks for the reply.

I understand the Intel is more expensive but those 2 configs are not even comparable in overall performance/features. Especially because of the dedicated graphics the Asus can be used for much more GPU-heavy applications like video editing.

Yes, it's just the way it is. An Intel laptop costs substantially more for equivalent specs as you can see from the Destian vs Recoil.

That's why so many people go for AMD, and why stocks are in short supply and they flip for silly money on marketplaces, everyone wants one because they're such good value with only a few tradeoffs.

But you spec to your needs. You wouldn't buy the Fusion if you were looking for GPU acceleration, that's not what it's designed for and it would be terrible for that use, it's entirely the wrong use case. It's for professionals or students on the go who need long battery life over everything else.

There are many different form factors all designed for specific uses. You have to get the right build for what you need it for. It's a common misconception that you can just throw any components together to fit a budget and it will work, that's wholly incorrect, they have to all match you use case, budget and resolution otherwise you get major bottlenecks. It's no different with laptops. And different form factors command different price ranges as they target a different subset of users and hence different sales volumes - supply vs demand.

 

[SpyderTracks]

To put it into another market, it's like comparing a Kia Sportage vs an Audi A3.

The Kia on paper is far better value, may have better features off the bat and additionals are cheaper.

But the audi is a luxury brand and hence commands a higher price.

If you had a family, you wouldn't buy the A3, it wouldn't make sense and fit your needs. That doesn't mean there are plenty of people who want the A3 as it fits their needs.

 

[blackcoffee17]

Hello,

I am looking at this laptop and wondering why is only available with a pretty mediocre i5 11300H and integrated Iris graphics?
This could be an amazing portable workhouse with a better and more efficient CPU like the Ryzen 5800U or 6600/6800 series.

Also, not so long ago it was still available with RTX 3050 but now only integrated graphics?

 

[SpyderTracks]

Hello,

I am looking at this laptop and wondering why is only available with a pretty mediocre i5 11300H and integrated Iris graphics?
This could be an amazing portable workhouse with a better and more efficient CPU like the Ryzen 5800U or 6600/6800 series.

Also, not so long ago it was still available with RTX 3050 but now only integrated graphics?

The Fusion is an Intel chassis so doesn't support AMD CPUs. They're entirely different sockets, so different motherboards and on laptops, the motherboards are part of the chassis, they're not compatible.

Similarly it's never supported a dedicated GPU

 

[blackcoffee17]

The Fusion is an Intel chassis so doesn't support AMD CPUs. They're entirely different sockets, so different motherboards and on laptops, the motherboards are part of the chassis, they're not compatible.

Similarly it's never supported a dedicated GPU

"The Fusion is an Intel chassis so doesn't support AMD CPU"

Ok, i understand that but why the motherboard cannot be made with AMD sockets, just like Ionico for example.

"Similarly it's never supported a dedicated GPU"

It was available until not long ago with i7-11370 and RTX 3050.

All i am saying is that the current config is very weak compared to competitor products, both
having dedicated GPU options for similar price.

 

[SpyderTracks]

"The Fusion is an Intel chassis so doesn't support AMD CPU"

Ok, i understand that but why the motherboard cannot be made with AMD sockets, just like Ionico for example.

As said, the Fusion is an Intel chassis, it's made with Intels. The AMD equivalent would be called something else and be a different design. AMD chassis all sold out a long time ago as already advised.

It was available until not long ago with i7-11370 and RTX 3050.

Not the 14", that's never supported dGPU, it's not a gaming chassis. You may be referring to the 15".

All i am saying is that the current config is very weak compared to competitor products, both
having dedicated GPU options for similar price.

You're comparing different form factors, it's a bit like saying that 4x4 Landrover is far more powerful than a Ford Escort, they're completely different types of car for different uses.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you really understand laptop designs or the difference between platforms? The Fusion does not have a dGPU, there's no requirement for it in it's form factor, having one would be a bad thing, not a good thing as it would heavily reduce battery power and increase weight. The Fusion is a thin and light where there is no requirement for graphics related power, it's purely processing.

There are about 8 or so different form factors for portables and ultra portables and they all have different hardware configurations and price points.

At the moment you keep cross referencing models that are different form factors and saying they should be more similar, it doesn't make any sense, you're not understanding mobile form factors or platforms.

 

[FusionOwner]

I was looking for other info on the Fusion 14 and stumbled across this thread.

Not the 14", that's never supported dGPU, it's not a gaming chassis. You may be referring to the 15".

This is incorrect. I own a Fusion 14 with a dedicated GPU.

As for why they aren't available anymore I'd say SpyderTracks is correct. My battery life is shockingly bad (around 1.5hrs from full even when the dGPU isn't in use); I'm guessing PCS either realised too late that this was a problem or got a few complaints and quietly removed the option.

As for not understanding form factors, this is needlessly patronising and also incorrect. The Razer blade stealth is a 13 inch laptop which has dedicated graphics. Size isn't the limiting factor with a dGPU; thermal and power considerations are far more important. The reason I have a Fusion 14 with a dedicated GPU is because I wanted a powerful, CAD/DL capable laptop which I could travel with (tired of lugging my ThinkPad P50 to the airport). There are good reasons to want graphics power in a small form-factor. In hindsight, better battery life would have been preferable to the dGPU but hey, we live and learn.