SSD reliability

[Wake]

I have a desktop from AN Other builder bought in December 2010 under 2 year warranty. It has been back twice in the first week - ended up being faulty RAM sticks. It then developed a nasty habit of breaking the SSD boot drive. It's a 60 GB OCZ. Until yesterday it had been replaced 4 times. After the first 3 I was told there was a known issue that had been fixed - of course, it went again.

Logged on this morning and it's gone again. It has a HD 5870, 6 GB RAM and a 600W PSU and we do nothing more than play WoW, GW2, Crysis, STALKER, Supreme Commander, Total War and Halo on it. We send the occasional e mail. It has a Bluray drive that I don't use, 1 TB mechanical storage and that's about it. Processor is an unclocked I7 950.

1 Is it reasonable to expect a bit more longevity out of an SSD? 5 times in 22 months seems unlucky.
2 Given this is the 7th time in less than 2 years it has gone back could I argue it is not fit for pirpose?

 

[keynes]

1- I think it depends on the manufacturer, from previous threads I know Tom had issues with an OCZ SSD until he managed to do a firmware update. I had not experienced any issues with my SSD since I bought the system.
2- you could request a different brand.

 

[Al.Neri]

no problems for me with my SSD either.... so far

 

[Stappa]

My ocz failed twice my new intel SSD seems good atm

 

[tom_gr7]

was it a ocz vertex 2? I had three lol!

-first died and was replaced straight away by PCS
-second a few months later, took PCS a few months to replace as they no longer stocked OCZ drives (due to this issue) so it went back to ocz and i received a brand new drive, for the second time.
-So this time I did a bit of research, turns out, there was a firmware issue, which had been fixed, great i thought, BUT when OCZ ssd ship the drives, they didn't update the ssd firmware lol. So it was nothing to do with PCS but OCZ not updating their own drives within testing or quality control. I updated the firmware, (if you need advice doing this let me know) and never had any problems again, a few months later I sold it to guy who wanted to run linux on it, so i checked the firmware was still the latest and shipped it on its way.

If i was you, i'd honestly just get a newer ssd, doesnt have to be top of the range, but a sata 6gbps drive, they are cheap at the moment. To update the firmware, you have to format the ssd, so you need a separate computer or have a OS installed on other drive. SO it can be a pain if your only OS install is on that drive.

So i'd look at getting a new one, I got a corsair force gt and its sooo much better than the vertex 2! when ya get it, update the firmware before you install anything on it, again I can help you with this.

Just to let ya know, I did request another brand ssd, but It wasn't possible, as if PCS covered the cost for me to go towards another ssd, then got the faulty drive replaced, they would end up with a drive they no longer stock that is known to be unreliable, as a result would be stuck with extra stock. I expect that the company you bought form would say something similar.

If ya need any help with firmware updates let me know, its not really needed on newer drives, but I tend to do it anyway before installing on a new ssd.

 

[Wake]

Ok...

I sent them a mail saying it’s all getting a bit silly now and that I believe some of the build components just don’t seem to like each other. The response is:

What I would be willing to do would be to send you an Intel 330 series SSD – the most reliable on the market by almost two orders of magnitude - and a top notch LSI controller card to allow you to get the most out of it. I fear that what you say may be true – the P6X58D-E was the first board on the market to support 6gbps SATA and there is a chance they “just don’t get along”. LSI is the most respected controller manufacturer in the world and is used on Intel’s own server grade motherboards – the Intel 330 series is, as I say, the most reliable SSD on the market. I am very confident that with this combination we will see an end to your trouble. I am more than happy to upgrade you to a 120GB SSD in place of your 60GB, and give you a 2 year warranty on these two new components from the date they are delivered.

My question is I don’t actually know what a ‘top notch LSI controller” is and even less idea how to fit one. The upgraded SSD is all very well I guess as is the additional warranty. Could I fit these myself easy enough and do you think it’s a good proposal or do I just revert throwing the sale of goods and services act at him. He’s admitting the build doesn’t work and given it’s already been back 6 times and is down again I think I can argue it should be replaced.

 

[tom_gr7]

hmm, that's a tough one,

I'd argue with him, but i think by law they (the company) have to offer a repair OR a replacement, so they kinda choose which one. But due to you having the system for nearly two years, you are not by any means entitled a refund, as you ahve had two years usage even with the other issues. So i think you may struggle to get a refund or replacement. I would think the company would argue that by law they only have to offer you a repair. I don't work in consumer law or anything, that is just my own interpretation of the law.

I think the only solution would be to accept the offer for new ssd and the controller, its also a free good quality mid to high range ssd.

 

[donegal]

All the stuff I have read re SSD's mention the unreliability of OCZ stuff but like all these things ymmv whatever brand you buy.

 

[Everon]

Here is a good way to decide on your brand of SSD to purchase:

Do not buy any SSD that uses the Sandforce 1 or 2 version based controllers!

People are still reporting BSOD under SF2 controllers even after the updates, they are just not worth the trouble in my opinion. Speed at the expense of reliability is just worth it especially if your using the drive for the OS. Intel, Crucial both use the Marvel set and Samsung make their own controller in house. These makes may not be the fastest but most people say they are the most reliable.

Just my opinion on SSD's at the moment and i am biased towards my samsung drive, which has been rock solid!

Jay.

 

[Wake]

I used to work in the Trading Standards Department in Gloucester many years ago so consumer law is not alien to me. I can also string a few words together. I reckon I can can get a refund. However, it will take time so what I will do is try to get a better SSD out of them (180GB), up the current RAM to 8GB, define what controller I get, ask them to upgrade the PSU and overclock the I7 950 whilst they have it - or I'll take them to small claims court with as much publicity as I can muster...I'll let you know what happens and thanks for the advice

 

[Wake]

I have composed and sent a response to the PC building company concerned - see below:

Hi Ben,

Ok, so the unit was not fit for purpose - I know my consumer rights as I used to work for Gloucestershire Trading Standards Department. I work in international finance now for a large machinery company but I still remember a few things from my past role in weights and measures, consumer credit and the Sale of Goods and Services Act. I think I could take you through the small claims court for a refund. However, I don't want to do that because your after-sales has been excellent and I want to maintain this relationship for future purchases. More importantly, so does my wife and it was her Xmas present in the first place. I also think we all have better things to do.

The reason for buying this PC is my wife wanted to keep in touch with me through on-line gaming (mainly WoW) whilst I travelled round Europe and Asia with my job - I game on a laptop in hotels for 60+ days a year. My main objective is to get this PC up and running as quickly as possible but since you have more or less admitted the build is/was not fit for purpose - due to new technology I guess - then I want recompensing for the hassle of returning the machine on numerous occasions, the inconvenience of taking ad hoc holidays, reloading applications and the stress of wondering whether this was going to be an issue that repeated itself. It has, and I want it sorting out once and for all. I am looking at it now...a fantastic Samsung panel (one of the main reasons for my purchase) with zero life in it and, potentially, the longest warranty in the history of PC builds. It has to stop.

Now, let's talk about the refund. I can appreciate I have had a machine for 22 months, apart from the 2 - 3 weeks you have had it whilst attempting its repair and, clearly, epically failing every time it has gone back to you. I earn £45K a year basic and get between 10% and 40% pro rata for visiting 'interesting' markets - call it £50K including the travel I do. Call it £25 an hour. I can conservatively calculate what this PC has cost me and it probably works out at more than the purchase price in real terms. Don't dismiss sending me a refund. Clearly, I would want VAT at its January 2011 rate rather than December as it is a material difference.

Your offer is really appreciated (expected) but it is very vague. Do you think I would ask a company to build a PC for me if I couldn't do it myself? I have no idea what you are talking about in your mail. I have an inkling of component costs, performance and what goes with what but don't imagine for a second I know what you are talking about. People like me put our faith in companies like yours to present us with a technological solution to satisfy our gaming needs (or video rendering or whatever people on Sony Vegas do) for a price. This is important. I pay you money and you build me a reliable gaming rig - that is what you do isn't it? You failed on this one. You know it and I know it so we need to reach an agreement on this. I have no wish to waste your time or mine as time is expensive and we can never get it back.

Your understanding is appreciated but there are a few things I need you to bear in mind what I have said. We have the following choices and I want you to choose one of them:

You refund the purchase price of the PC as at January 2011 - £1400.00 or thereabouts
You replace the PC under full warranty with a spec of my choice and similar value
We forget about negotiation and go the small claims court route
I send the PC back to you and you do the following:
increase the SSD to 128 GB Corsair (or similar)
Increase RAM from 6MB to 8MB
we agree between us what 'a top notch LSI controller card' actually is and get it fitted as part of the re-build
you overclock the CPU a little at your cost
you load an acceptable software that reads Bluray discs (and I don't mean PowerDVD 10)
I expect you to do this work as it is still under warranty and I would like the 2 year warranty extended on all components

Let me know.

Alan

 

[Noble]

I used to work in the Trading Standards Department in Gloucester many years ago so consumer law is not alien to me. I can also string a few words together. I reckon I can can get a refund. However, it will take time so what I will do is try to get a better SSD out of them (180GB), up the current RAM to 8GB, define what controller I get, ask them to upgrade the PSU and overclock the I7 950 whilst they have it - or I'll take them to small claims court with as much publicity as I can muster...I'll let you know what happens and thanks for the advice

1. In all honesty, you don't really need to upgrade the PSU, unless you wanted to upgrade the components of your PC significantly.
2. Don't bother trying to overclock the CPU, the performance boost won't be that great.
3. Your better off getting a motherboard that supports SATA 6gbs instead of a independent controller, makes life easier in my opinion.

 

[Wake]

Indeed - I am making a point they are not walking over me. It's a negotiation thing.

 

[tom_gr7]

You do realise that the problems you have encountered (ssd failure)are not actually the pc companies fault. More a conbination of your board being the first to use sata 6gbps and OCZ for not updating the firmware. But I guess you could argue that the pc builder should have known to update the ssd firmware before sending it back to you.

I hope that you get it sorted out mate,

 

[Wake]

I am hoping to come to some kind of deal with them but would hope this will not drag on as I'm having to move PCs around the house yet again. I'm getting a bit old to be moving Dell Dimensions up and down the stairs - they weigh a tonne. And the wife doesn't like playing WoW on anything other than ultra as her toon's hair 'doesn't look right'.

 

[Wake]

Their response as follows:

Dear Alan

Thank you for your email

Sorry for my late reply, today is Windows 8’s launch so we are much busier than usual.

I am happy to agree with you on option 4 – we will extend your warranty by a further year and 2 years for the SSD and LSI card as previously agreed. The SSD I recommend is an Intel 330 series – these are much more reliable than Crucial models. I am happy to provide extra RAM as well, but 8GB is not possible on your board, so I will upgrade it to 12GB instead. An overclock is fine too.

The LSI card I recommend is the LSI 9211-4I. The software I recommend for BD playback is Win DVD – it works a lot better than PowerDVD. We can install a “trial” and if you try it and confirm with me that you like it, we will then pay for an upgrade to the full version for you.

If you are satisfied with the above please let me know and I will liaise with Martin to get your system booked in as soon as is convenient to yourself.

 

[tom_gr7]

cant really complain with that mate,

 

[Wake]

My advice - plead ignorant of any knowledge of PCs and components when dealing with PC builders. I will be reverting telling them the LSI 9211-41 is not what I consider a 'top notch card'...call me evil but I know I am in the right (in law anyway) - ultimately, they should have given me a system that was fit for purpose and since they have not - that's just unfortunate. Trading Standards today confirmed I am right and said go for the refund or replacement but I feel this component/software offer is so good I would be a fool to turn it down. If they give me the LSI card I want I'll take it out the build, along with the SSD and load windows on the mechanical drive. I'll sell the SSD and LSI card for what, £600 ish and that almost pays for the Optimus Happy days.....

Anyway, I love my 5870...probably one of the best cards ever made - it's just perfect imho

 

[keynes]

Their response as follows:

Dear Alan

Thank you for your email

Sorry for my late reply, today is Windows 8’s launch so we are much busier than usual.

I am happy to agree with you on option 4 – we will extend your warranty by a further year and 2 years for the SSD and LSI card as previously agreed. The SSD I recommend is an Intel 330 series – these are much more reliable than Crucial models. I am happy to provide extra RAM as well, but 8GB is not possible on your board, so I will upgrade it to 12GB instead. An overclock is fine too.

The LSI card I recommend is the LSI 9211-4I. The software I recommend for BD playback is Win DVD – it works a lot better than PowerDVD. We can install a “trial” and if you try it and confirm with me that you like it, we will then pay for an upgrade to the full version for you.

If you are satisfied with the above please let me know and I will liaise with Martin to get your system booked in as soon as is convenient to yourself.

If I ever get an issue with a retailer do you mind negotiation on my behalf?
Good stuff.

 

[steaky360]

I think Wake might have just gotten himself some 'outsourcing' work as a negotiator haha!

What are yer rates