Vyper 17 inch terrible performance when running on battery

barlew

barlew

Godlike
When I try to run the laptop on battery power I noticed i get random points where the laptop lags extremely badly. All I am doing is browsing file structures and trying to browse the internet and watch Youtube etc. The laptop works absolutely fine when plugged in.

The system will run perfectly fine then all of a sudden will lag horrifically to the point where you cant even move the mouse for a number of seconds. Then it returns to normal. It happens randomly but frequently.

When I observe the CPU stats on HWMonitor I can see that the core clocks will be running around 2500MHz or so then all of a sudden they will drop to around 750MHz and stay there for a random time then randomly it will jump up again.

I have noticed that this Is triggered whenever the CPU Package voltage drops below 10W.

Things i have tried to fix it:

-Removed under-volt and confirmed It has been removed
-Ensured power profiles are set to High Performance in both Windows and Gaming Center
-Ensured that the Max CPU state in the Windows power plan is set to 100%
-Carried out a clean install of Windows and all drivers

Has anyone got any idea what to do next? for god sake don't say RMA.

Also anyone with a Vyper 17" does yours do the same thing on battery?
 
ubuysa

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
I'm assuming the temps were ok?

Since your'e the second person to notice this (at least) and you've already done all the obvious things, I would give PCS a call. I wonder whether this is a BIOS issue??
 
B

briggm

Bronze Level Poster
Somebody mentioned in the other thread that the issue disappeared when they disabled the keyboard backlighting. That's obviously not a fix, but would be interesting to see if it's the same in your case.
 
barlew

barlew

Godlike
ubuysa said:
I'm assuming the temps were ok?

Since your'e the second person to notice this (at least) and you've already done all the obvious things, I would give PCS a call. I wonder whether this is a BIOS issue??
Click to expand...

Temps are all bang on it looks like there is an issue with the CPU receiving enough power when on battery. I will raise a support ticket to see what they think but the BIOS is what i am thinking.

briggm said:
Somebody mentioned in the other thread that the issue disappeared when they disabled the keyboard backlighting. That's obviously not a fix, but would be interesting to see if it's the same in your case.
Click to expand...

I am going to test it this evening when i am back from work.
 
barlew

barlew

Godlike
So keyboard and lightbar being off make no difference.

What i have noticed is that when this happens in XTU the laptop is constantly Power Limit throttling which to me confirms for some reason the CPU is not being supplied enough power. I cannot work out why the laptop is throttling itself though as all temps are completely normal.
 
barlew

barlew

Godlike
I have solved it finally.

So as I thought the CPU was power limit throttling because it was not being supplied enough power I believe when it was trying to enter either PL1 or PL2 states due to the TDP being set too low.

Using throttlestop to manually set PL1 to 45W and PL2 to 90W has fixed my issue.
The package power supply is now much less erratic and sits around 13 watts during normal load.
The concern here for me is this is all slightly above my head and I think I am probably reducing the performance potential of the laptop by limiting PL2 to 90W but I don't want to set it any higher as i do not want to damage the CPU (although it should thermal throttle before that point).

Has anyone got any wisdom to shed on the situation?

Intel recommend the PL1 TDP for the chip be set to 45W but they do not say what PL2 should be set for. This is presumably because it is heavily dependant upon the thermal properties of the chassis the chip is situated in.

*edit* - upon further investigation it looks like by default the boost and gaming modes PL1 and PL2 are both set to 35W. Presumably this is to prolong battery charge but my laptop certainly does not like it.

When plugged in the PL1 and PL2 are both set to 120W by default.
 
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ubuysa

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
barlew said:
I have solved it finally.

So as I thought the CPU was power limit throttling because it was not being supplied enough power I believe when it was trying to enter either PL1 or PL2 states due to the TDP being set too low.

Using throttlestop to manually set PL1 to 45W and PL2 to 90W has fixed my issue.
The package power supply is now much less erratic and sits around 13 watts during normal load.
The concern here for me is this is all slightly above my head and I think I am probably reducing the performance potential of the laptop by limiting PL2 to 90W but I don't want to set it any higher as i do not want to damage the CPU (although it should thermal throttle before that point).

Has anyone got any wisdom to shed on the situation?

Intel recommend the PL1 TDP for the chip be set to 45W but they do not say what PL2 should be set for. This is presumably because it is heavily dependant upon the thermal properties of the chassis the chip is situated in.

*edit* - upon further investigation it looks like by default the boost and gaming modes PL1 and PL2 are both set to 35W. Presumably this is to prolong battery charge but my laptop certainly does not like it.

When plugged in the PL1 and PL2 are both set to 120W by default.
Click to expand...
That's way above my level of knowledge, but I would run this past PCS just in case there are any warranty issues...
 
barlew

barlew

Godlike
ubuysa said:
That's way above my level of knowledge, but I would run this past PCS just in case there are any warranty issues...
Click to expand...

I raised a technical support ticket a couple of days ago I am still waiting for them to get back to me. I would hope there aren't any warranty issues as I have set the PL2 to 30 W lower than what PCS or TongFang have set them too on their highest performance profile so there is no danger of frying anything.

The fix for the issue is to set the PL1 and PL2 states in battery mode to 45W. The problem is if i do this it overrides the 3 different profiles in gaming center which renders the dedicated boost button on the chassis useless.
 
ubuysa

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
barlew said:
I raised a technical support ticket a couple of days ago I am still waiting for them to get back to me. I would hope there aren't any warranty issues as I have set the PL2 to 30 W lower than what PCS or TongFang have set them too on their highest performance profile so there is no danger of frying anything.

The fix for the issue is to set the PL1 and PL2 states in battery mode to 45W. The problem is if i do this it overrides the 3 different profiles in gaming center which renders the dedicated boost button on the chassis useless.
Click to expand...
I would hope there would be no warranty issues but I think it's important to keep PCS in your loop. :)
 
barlew

barlew

Godlike
ubuysa said:
I would hope there would be no warranty issues but I think it's important to keep PCS in your loop. :)
Click to expand...

I fully agree with you on that one.
Hopefully PCS will be able to have a conversation with TongFang so they can either get an updated BIOS or an updated version of GamingCenterU to resolve the issue.
 
M

mrlip

Gold Level Poster
barlew said:
I have solved it finally.

So as I thought the CPU was power limit throttling because it was not being supplied enough power I believe when it was trying to enter either PL1 or PL2 states due to the TDP being set too low.

Using throttlestop to manually set PL1 to 45W and PL2 to 90W has fixed my issue.
The package power supply is now much less erratic and sits around 13 watts during normal load.
The concern here for me is this is all slightly above my head and I think I am probably reducing the performance potential of the laptop by limiting PL2 to 90W but I don't want to set it any higher as i do not want to damage the CPU (although it should thermal throttle before that point).

Has anyone got any wisdom to shed on the situation?

Intel recommend the PL1 TDP for the chip be set to 45W but they do not say what PL2 should be set for. This is presumably because it is heavily dependant upon the thermal properties of the chassis the chip is situated in.

*edit* - upon further investigation it looks like by default the boost and gaming modes PL1 and PL2 are both set to 35W. Presumably this is to prolong battery charge but my laptop certainly does not like it.

When plugged in the PL1 and PL2 are both set to 120W by default.
Click to expand...

If it runs at 120W TDP when plugged in then it will be fine to run at 120W TDP on battery. Granted the battery might not last long:LOL: But these are only maximum values, not constant so it will draw less power when needed
 
barlew

barlew

Godlike
mrlip said:
If it runs at 120W TDP when plugged in then it will be fine to run at 120W TDP on battery. Granted the battery might not last long:LOL: But these are only maximum values, not constant so it will draw less power when needed
Click to expand...

Yeh so this is what i thought. I am hoping PCS are able to get me a BIOS update to sort it out.
 
Scott

Scott

Behold The Ford Mondeo
Moderator
As above, Wattage limit is fine. Power/Watts are drawn from the system by the component, they take as much as they need and are only limited by voltage which you aren't touching.

I would have no qualms whatsoever by having them both set at 120w. For a start the PL1 and PL2 are short state anyway so you only get a minute or so with them at full chat. Any temp issues will thermal throttle.

The only thing to consider is battery life, but that's where your power saving modes etc come in. Setting the bar at 120w and then containing it by other means would be my main aim. I would also re-apply the undervolt as that will keep the temps lower and also reduce power consumption from the battery.

Basically you had a 40mph speed limiter on your car and struggled everytime you went on the motorway. Bumping that limit up to 120mph doesn't mean you are going to go that speed, it just means you have the headroom to work anywhere within without worrying about hitting any limits :)
 
barlew

barlew

Godlike
Scott said:
As above, Wattage limit is fine. Power/Watts are drawn from the system by the component, they take as much as they need and are only limited by voltage which you aren't touching.

I would have no qualms whatsoever by having them both set at 120w. For a start the PL1 and PL2 are short state anyway so you only get a minute or so with them at full chat. Any temp issues will thermal throttle.

The only thing to consider is battery life, but that's where your power saving modes etc come in. Setting the bar at 120w and then containing it by other means would be my main aim. I would also re-apply the undervolt as that will keep the temps lower and also reduce power consumption from the battery.

Basically you had a 40mph speed limiter on your car and struggled everytime you went on the motorway. Bumping that limit up to 120mph doesn't mean you are going to go that speed, it just means you have the headroom to work anywhere within without worrying about hitting any limits :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification Scott.
The i have bumped both up to 120W which is what the system default is when running on mains. The only drama now is that obviously because i have manually set it the TongFang power profiles are over ridden which makes the profile selection button on the chassis useless.
 
barlew

barlew

Godlike
After a couple of emails to the tech support team my ticket has been passed on to the R&D department so that they can have a conversation with Tong Fang regards getting either an updated BIOS or a release of command center which ups the TDP for the PL1 and PL2 states whilst running on battery.

Understandably I have been told this may take some time so ill post an update as and when.
 
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ubuysa

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
barlew said:
After a couple of emails to the tech support team my ticket has been passed on to the R&D department so that they can have a conversation with Tong Fang regards getting either an updated BIOS or a release of command center which ups the TDP for the PL1 and PL2 states whilst running on battery.

Understandably I have been told this may take some time so ill post an update as and when.
Click to expand...
Much kudos for having been able to identify the problem and for working with PCS to try and get a resolution from TongFang. (y)
 
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