Brand new defiance 15
- Thread starter Tony1044
- Start date
Do remember that the vast majority of the forum members are just normal people and we all have opinions and may state stuff in a way that is not understood the same way by everyone.
I know I've certainly said stuff before knowing exactly what I meant but some people have heard it in a completely different way to how it was intended.
GeorgeHillier
Prolific Poster
As stated before it's clevo who supply the drivers. If they don't work well with windows 10 then PCS can't "marry the two", operating systems are extremely difficult to work with and PCS have no knowledge in drivers or operating systems other than what clevo tell them. There is nothing they can do to help.
I agree that PCS should probably add a warning, but at the same time it will only be a small percentage affected and it will likely cause those that are less knowledgeable of computers to shop elsewhere because they'd think it was a problem with PCS machines instead of windows 10.
keynes
Multiverse Poster
Wow, ok. My comments made are based on my experience as a customer, it happens. You are referring to any retailer has the obligation but it happens with my laptop manufacturers issues with drivers especially when updating operating systems. It is not perfect but it happens. I am aware of trading standards and the competitions and markets authority. I think you misunderstood my comment. My view is that our expectations are not the same as what happens with many businesses. That's why we have trading standards and if we are not happy we can be entitle for a refund. I am not saying they don't have an obligation, never said that my point was it happens and in this case they can't really control it since they rely on Clevo for those. I assume you have a different business than PCS and I don't think how comparisons should be made. You are making a value judgment, I wouldn't act in many ways at my workplace but others do. I am obviously expressing my point and hope I am coming as polite as possible and I am very calm
ubuysa
The BSOD Doctor
That's true of course for the general public, but most of them go to high street stores to buy computers. It's a fair bet that quite a large percentage of PCS's customers are savvy enough to understand the issues around Windows 10.
I do agree with you that PCS should advise any customer ordering a new computer with Windows 10 that there may be issues with the computer because of Windows 10 and/or drivers that are beyond PCS's control.
They certainly have the skills to make stuff work when us mere mortals would be struggling, but if the BIOS update or driver update is not available at all then what can they do? Regarding the trackpad in this post for example, if the vendor of the trackpad has not yet created a Windows 10 driver to enable all the trackpad features under Windows 10 what can PCS do? Apart from tell the customer that there are features that are not available because of driver limitations (which we have agreed they should do) there is nothing they can do about it.
The only way to do that it seems to me, would be to refuse to sell computers that are or might be affected by these driver problems with Windows 10 pre-installed. I don't know whether the OEM agreement with Microsoft allows them to refuse to sell Windows 10 if a customer asks for it? Again though, I am in agreement with you that PCS should warm these customers and at least suggest they choose Windows 8.1 in the interim and upgrade themselves later.
Yep, I can agree with that too.
According to the Citizens Advice website at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/c...s/what-is-meant-by-goods-not-fit-for-purpose/, good must be able to "carry out their normal purpose". So in this case, the laptop does carry out it's "normal purpose" because the OP is using it. The bits that are not (yet) functioning could easily be argued to be not part of the computer's "normal purpose".
GeorgeHillier
Prolific Poster
I was thinking this too, since a laptop is a portable computer and a trackpad is a peripheral, not part of the computer itself. However you could also argue that the trackpad is essential whilst on the move using it on the train etc.
Wow I didn't intend to cause such a stir just provide feedback.
I'm an IT consultant so can luckily handle and work around most issues. I ordered it with Windows 10 because - well shiny and new and deep down the engineer in me that loves new toys is still there.
I think what PCS should perhaps have done is popped up a warning that there are issues with the OS and given me the choice. They can do it for hardware at the point of sale, so it shouldn't be too difficult.
Trackpad for me, isn't a huge issue as I tend to use a USB mouse most of the time anyway but coming from a MacBook Pro (only ever booted into Windows) with such high quality hardware - especially the trackpad - it is a little disconcerting to have issues whomever is to blame (in this case, I believe it's solely down to Synaptics as frankly they've had an age with various pre-releases to get to grips with the OS). However, now I make that point, so have both Clevo and PCS so meh...bit of a cockup all round, really.
My admittedly limited investigations into the fingerprint reader lend me to believe that MS changed the security model around some biometric stuff to support Windows Hello (or whatever trite crud they call it) and this is not compatible with the driver. It may work if I take the BioExcess stuff off, but this is really at the bottom of my personal list of priorities
I'm an IT consultant so can luckily handle and work around most issues. I ordered it with Windows 10 because - well shiny and new and deep down the engineer in me that loves new toys is still there.
I think what PCS should perhaps have done is popped up a warning that there are issues with the OS and given me the choice. They can do it for hardware at the point of sale, so it shouldn't be too difficult.
Trackpad for me, isn't a huge issue as I tend to use a USB mouse most of the time anyway but coming from a MacBook Pro (only ever booted into Windows) with such high quality hardware - especially the trackpad - it is a little disconcerting to have issues whomever is to blame (in this case, I believe it's solely down to Synaptics as frankly they've had an age with various pre-releases to get to grips with the OS). However, now I make that point, so have both Clevo and PCS so meh...bit of a cockup all round, really.
My admittedly limited investigations into the fingerprint reader lend me to believe that MS changed the security model around some biometric stuff to support Windows Hello (or whatever trite crud they call it) and this is not compatible with the driver. It may work if I take the BioExcess stuff off, but this is really at the bottom of my personal list of priorities
Actually Microsoft don't care per se - they will sell you the latest license. You can then use said license to downgrade to an earlier OS in most cases. You have still paid for, and it still registers as, a sale of the latest OS.
Now I am coming at this from the Enterprise view so potentially it is different from a home user perspective but I doubt it.
So can't check it until this evening as don't have my laptop with me, but Synaptics have released a Windows 10 driver that is on the HCL - http://www.synaptics.com/en/drivers.php
Also I noticed that Clevo appear to have done a bunch of updates to the stuff on their downloads and there's an updated fingerprint driver - will give that a try later, too, and feed back.
Also I noticed that Clevo appear to have done a bunch of updates to the stuff on their downloads and there's an updated fingerprint driver - will give that a try later, too, and feed back.