Computer turns off then on again on boot up / and issues with 'sleep'

[Scott]

Sounds like it's either down to the motherboard or the CPU then.

That's about as far as I would recommend you take the testing unless you have had experience with installing & re-pasting CPUs.

My next move personally would be to take the chip out, re-seat it, clean off/renew the paste then see how that works.

Without another system to try each of the components in that would be as far as anyone could go.

 

[ubuysa]

Sounds like it's either down to the motherboard or the CPU then.

That's about as far as I would recommend you take the testing unless you have had experience with installing & re-pasting CPUs.

My next move personally would be to take the chip out, re-seat it, clean off/renew the paste then see how that works.

Without another system to try each of the components in that would be as far as anyone could go.

Indeed the motherboard would be my best guess now, you've pretty much eliminated everything else. One last 'clutching at straws' thing you might try is replacing the CMOS battery on the motherboard. I've never heard of a dead battery causing these kinds of problems but they cost pennies and it's worth a try.

Afterthought: Try plugging the PC directly into a wall socket (not via an anti-surge adapter or anything) and try to use a different ring in your home - better yet try a different house! It's (very) remotely possible that your problems might be noise on the mains somehow....

 

[ellspeedy]

Sounds like it's either down to the motherboard or the CPU then.

That's about as far as I would recommend you take the testing unless you have had experience with installing & re-pasting CPUs.

My next move personally would be to take the chip out, re-seat it, clean off/renew the paste then see how that works.

Without another system to try each of the components in that would be as far as anyone could go.

I've never installed new thermal paste before, how tricky is it? And what are the risks of doing it incorrect / poorly?

Indeed the motherboard would be my best guess now, you've pretty much eliminated everything else. One last 'clutching at straws' thing you might try is replacing the CMOS battery on the motherboard. I've never heard of a dead battery causing these kinds of problems but they cost pennies and it's worth a try.

Afterthought: Try plugging the PC directly into a wall socket (not via an anti-surge adapter or anything) and try to use a different ring in your home - better yet try a different house! It's (very) remotely possible that your problems might be noise on the mains somehow....

I've tried replacing the CMOS battery but ended up putting the original one back in as it appeared to be having more problems with the new battery in. Something I wasn't sure on there was the new battery I put in was a little smaller (in depth) than the original, is this normal / a problem?

I have actually tired through a wall socket when moving my PC downstairs and had the same issue

I take it you don't have a Wi-Fi card? I only ask as on a previous PC, I was having a nightmare with boot issues and BSODs and it was fine after I disconnected the Wi-Fi card.

No, no Wifi card on the PC, just use ethernet. It does however have a built in wifi thing on the Mobo.



The only thing I've not tried from all of the suggestions is the Windows install. Can I download this to a USB and try, or do I need the original CD etc?

Also just to note, this morning it boot cycled for a few minutes. I moved one of the RAM sticks to a different slot, fired up and it booted on 3rd attempt so it is still working, just hit and miss

 

[Scott]

The boot cycle is pre-windows so highly unlikely to be the issue. A poor HDD could cause this issue but as you have removed them all and experienced the same issue this isn't likely to be the case either.

My guess is still CPU or Motherboard. Motherboards are far more likely to develop a fault without being touched than a CPU, so its likely to be the motherboard..... but, if the PC has had a knock, the CPU could be unsettled and it can cause these issues. I've had this sort of behaviour in the past where the CPU cooler put too much pressure on one corner of the CPU which flexed its seating in the socket and caused crazy errors.

Re the battery, sounds like the wrong model of battery?

Re re-pasting, it's fairly straight forward but care must be taken not to damage anything. You just put a pea sized blob of paste on top of the chip after thoroughly cleaning both it and the heatsink. The side effects of a poor paste job are poor temps.... it won't cause any POST issues or anything like that. It would get you that one step further forward.

 

[ubuysa]

I've tried replacing the CMOS battery but ended up putting the original one back in as it appeared to be having more problems with the new battery in. Something I wasn't sure on there was the new battery I put in was a little smaller (in depth) than the original, is this normal / a problem?

You bought the wrong battery then. I'm not terribly confident this is your problem but it's worth getting the right battery in there, and a new one. The battery model should be stamped on the battery, typically they are CR2032 batteries if memory serves...?

 

[Oussebon]

Something I wasn't sure on there was the new battery I put in was a little smaller (in depth) than the original, is this normal / a problem?

These kinds of batteries have numbers written on the back side.

e.g. CR2032

Do they both have the same number?

 

[ellspeedy]

Sorry for the slow response everyone.

The boot cycle is pre-windows so highly unlikely to be the issue. A poor HDD could cause this issue but as you have removed them all and experienced the same issue this isn't likely to be the case either.

My guess is still CPU or Motherboard. Motherboards are far more likely to develop a fault without being touched than a CPU, so its likely to be the motherboard..... but, if the PC has had a knock, the CPU could be unsettled and it can cause these issues. I've had this sort of behaviour in the past where the CPU cooler put too much pressure on one corner of the CPU which flexed its seating in the socket and caused crazy errors.

Re the battery, sounds like the wrong model of battery?

Re re-pasting, it's fairly straight forward but care must be taken not to damage anything. You just put a pea sized blob of paste on top of the chip after thoroughly cleaning both it and the heatsink. The side effects of a poor paste job are poor temps.... it won't cause any POST issues or anything like that. It would get you that one step further forward.

Over the last few months I have moved the pc downstairs and back up a few times, obviously am very careful when doing so but perhaps something has had a knock there?

I have a pack of CR2025 and CR2032 batteries, so I'm guessing I put in the 2025 one instead of 2032, my bad! Will try swapping them over today and see what happens.

If that doesn't work, sounds like I'm going to give the thermal paste a go at some point then....wish me luck!

You bought the wrong battery then. I'm not terribly confident this is your problem but it's worth getting the right battery in there, and a new one. The battery model should be stamped on the battery, typically they are CR2032 batteries if memory serves...?

Just me being a tool and reading them as all the same type but it's a pack of 4 CR2032 and 4 CR2025. Doh!

These kinds of batteries have numbers written on the back side.

e.g. CR2032

View attachment 15074

Do they both have the same number?

Thanks, will give this a go with the CR2032 and cross my fingers!

Thanks everyone, will update you post battery swap over.

 

[ubuysa]

Over the last few months I have moved the pc downstairs and back up a few times, obviously am very careful when doing so but perhaps something has had a knock there?

Check that everything inside is properly inserted in its slot then. Also check that all connectors are fully home.

If it's failing POST and you move it around a lot then a lose card/connector has to be high on the list of suspects.

 

[ellspeedy]

So I’ve swapped over the battery but no change.

I’ve removed and re-inserted the: graphics card, CPU fan, both RAM sticks, HDD,SSD, DVD. still no change. Is there anything I’m missing to check connection there?

Ive not yet got around to doing the thermal paste however with some more tinkering I’ve noticed a strange pattern. When I boot up and it gets permanently stuck in the loop, I power off, swap a RAM stick to one of the spare slots, power on and then (as far as I can remember) it will boot up correctly on the 2nd / 3rd attempt. Does this point to RAM issues? Just seems strange how moving to a different port appears to prevent the endless loop (but still has a few attempts to get there). or would this point to Mobo issues?

Also, I’ve found the RAM sticks are quite stiff to take out / put back in, especially at the bottom part. It can sometimes take a bit of a push to click out/into place. Is this normal?

Finally, when booting up successfully I’m often seeing the error screen (and 3-4 loud beeps from the computer) regarding the CPU fan. When entering BIOS it’s f I leave it in BIOS the fan speed eventually gets up and goes green.
Would this point to the CPU fan causing the problem?

Also apologies in advance if I shouldn’t post the pictures here. Please let me know if there’s a better way of posting them.

Thanks everyone

 

[Scott]

Looks like there's a break in the output from the fan or the fan itself isn't working.

Is the CPU fan turning? You could disable the CPU fan check in order to bypass the error but in the long run it's going to be better to fix the issue.

I take it the fan is connected to the correct output?

 

[ubuysa]

So I’ve swapped over the battery but no change.

Worth doing though.

I’ve removed and re-inserted the: graphics card, CPU fan, both RAM sticks, HDD,SSD, DVD. still no change. Is there anything I’m missing to check connection there?

No, that's about all you can try removing.

Ive not yet got around to doing the thermal paste however with some more tinkering I’ve noticed a strange pattern. When I boot up and it gets permanently stuck in the loop, I power off, swap a RAM stick to one of the spare slots, power on and then (as far as I can remember) it will boot up correctly on the 2nd / 3rd attempt. Does this point to RAM issues? Just seems strange how moving to a different port appears to prevent the endless loop (but still has a few attempts to get there). or would this point to Mobo issues?

I think that's a likely to be a red herring but you can always download Memtest and run that overnight to check your RAM.

Also, I’ve found the RAM sticks are quite stiff to take out / put back in, especially at the bottom part. It can sometimes take a bit of a push to click out/into place. Is this normal?

RAM cards generally have catches on the sides that need to be released to get the RAM out, it can need quite a pull to get them out though. When putting them back you need gentle but consistent pressure until you hear the catches click back into place.

Finally, when booting up successfully I’m often seeing the error screen (and 3-4 loud beeps from the computer) regarding the CPU fan. When entering BIOS it’s f I leave it in BIOS the fan speed eventually gets up and goes green.
Would this point to the CPU fan causing the problem?

I very much think it might. If the fan isn't working properly and the CPU overheats during booting (and booting Windows is a pretty CPU intensive time) you might well see the sorts of problems you mention. That the fan recovers whilst sitting in the BIOS and from then on it's ok would support that. I think you need to look at that fan.

Also apologies in advance if I shouldn’t post the pictures here. Please let me know if there’s a better way of posting them.

The photos are fine, that's what we all do and a picture is often worth a thousand words.

 

[ellspeedy]

Thanks for the responses Scott and Abuysa

Looks like there's a break in the output from the fan or the fan itself isn't working.

Is the CPU fan turning? You could disable the CPU fan check in order to bypass the error but in the long run it's going to be better to fix the issue.

I take it the fan is connected to the correct output?

Yeah so the CPU fan is turning from the initial start up and is connected to the correct output (the same one it was connected to when put together by PCS). How would I disable the CPU fan check? And would this cause damage the CPU? (I agree though, I'd rather get the problem fixed ultimately).

I think that's a likely to be a red herring but you can always download Memtest and run that overnight to check your RAM.

I've downloaded Memtest and will fire that off tonight and see what it says.

RAM cards generally have catches on the sides that need to be released to get the RAM out, it can need quite a pull to get them out though. When putting them back you need gentle but consistent pressure until you hear the catches click back into place.

Yeah my mobo has the catch at the top which I check to ensure it's 'open' but the stiffness is at the bottom. Obviously I shouldn't be moving RAM often so perhaps it's just that.

I very much think it might. If the fan isn't working properly and the CPU overheats during booting (and booting Windows is a pretty CPU intensive time) you might well see the sorts of problems you mention. That the fan recovers whilst sitting in the BIOS and from then on it's ok would support that. I think you need to look at that fan.

I think I'm going to give the thermal paste a clean + replace and while I'm doing that, I'm also thinking of replacing the fan as they don't seem too expensive.

Here is the Fan I'm looking at.
And Here is the Thermal Paste.

Before I go ahead and purchase, can someone please just confirm the fan is suitable?

Thank you once again everyone

 

[Scott]

Paste is fine, the cooler is a bit meh but for the price it'll be good enough for trouble shooting

 

[ellspeedy]

Paste is fine, the cooler is a bit meh but for the price it'll be good enough for trouble shooting

Thanks for the quick response Scott. Does that mean this Fan isn't very good or there are better ones available at that sort of price?

I'm not using the PC for intensive gaming anymore (only LoL and TFT at the moment). I am however running dual screens and also HDMI to TV for films etc. So I'm not looking to spend a lot of money on a high end fan.

Guess my question really is, would this Fan be sufficient for what I'm using the PC for nowadays?

Thanks

 

[Scott]

Itll likely be fine then. It wont put the system in any danger or anything, it just wont like high clocks for extended periods of time. It may throttle if intensively used but other than that a-ok.

 

[ellspeedy]

So I’ve just installed the new fan and still having the boot up issue and the CPU Fan error with RPM under 600 before gaining speed and powering on correctly.
Ive double checked its all plugged in correctly etc so does this now point to a mobo issue?

 

[Scott]

Suggests it stems from the motherboard then.

 

[ubuysa]

I think your best option now is to phone PCS...

 

[ellspeedy]

Suggests it stems from the motherboard then.

Was hoping you wouldn't say that!

I think your best option now is to phone PCS...

So I've spoke to them once before re this, and they suggested clearing the CMOS, replacing the battery etc.

If I call again, what should I expect from them? Obviously my warranty has expired so where does that leave me in terms of their support?

Thank you again for all your help on this

 

[SpyderTracks]

Was hoping you wouldn't say that!



So I've spoke to them once before re this, and they suggested clearing the CMOS, replacing the battery etc.

If I call again, what should I expect from them? Obviously my warranty has expired so where does that leave me in terms of their support?

Thank you again for all your help on this

They're the ones left to speak to. Even if you're out of support they may be able to give you some guidance.

My thought would be BIOS update as last resort, and if that doesn't work, then look for replacement motherboard / computer as it's quite old.