Defiance Series: 17.3" Temps

[lewistimms]

Well after waiting about 11 days for my Laptop to arrive i can honestly say i am not best please.

The first problem was that the laptop was reaching 88 Degrees (see screenshot take on phone) whilst i was installing steam games. Yes you heard me correctly installing. So i called up PC specialist (very helpful if i'm honest) and they weren't sure why it was overheating but told me to install the control center again. After a lot of faf of the customer support guy trying to install it with remote access we got there eventually.

So i went back to using it accordingly. Installed everything i wanted and all was fine.

I decided to play a game or two (Black Ops 2 and Asseto corsa) tonight and test the CPU temps whilst the games were running on the settings which achieved a good frame rate (i got about 300+ frames in black ops 2 with everything on Max and everything in asseto corsa set to max producing very smooth gameplay but not sure about what FPS it was at). I finished playing both games and the max CPU temp reached by one core was 98 degrees the rest were around 88+ (see attached screenshot taken by Laptop)

I think them temps are way too high and the laptops life span will be getting decreased rapidly if it keeps reaching those temperatures. Is this something i should be worried about?

P.S. I've read alot about these laptops getting hot since i bought it

SPECS

Chassis & Display	Defiance Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD 144Hz 72% NTSC LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Processor (CPU)	Intel® Core™ i7 Six Core Processor 9750H (2.6GHz, 4.5GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)	16GB Corsair 2666MHz SODIMM DDR4 (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card	NVIDIA® GeForce® RTX 2070 Max-Q - 8.0GB GDDR6 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1st Storage Drive	1TB SEAGATE 7mm SERIAL ATA III 2.5" HARD DRIVE WITH 128MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
1st M.2 SSD Drive	512GB ADATA SU800 M.2 2280 (560 MB/R, 520 MB/W)
Memory Card Reader	Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
AC Adaptor	1 x 180W AC Adaptor
Battery	Defiance Series 4 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (62WH)
Power Cable	1 x 1 Metre Cloverleaf UK Power Cable
Thermal Paste	COOLER MASTER MASTERGEL MAKER THERMAL COMPOUND
Sound Card	2 Channel High Definition Audio + MIC/Headphone Jack
Bluetooth & Wireless	GIGABIT LAN & KILLER™ WIRELESS-AC 1550 M.2 GAMING 802.11AC + BLUETOOTH 5.0
USB/Thunderbolt Options	2 x USB 3.1 PORTS (Type C) + 2 x USB 3.1 PORTS
Keyboard Language	RGB BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD
Operating System	NO OPERATING SYSTEM REQUIRED (Windows 10)

 

[de4life]

Those are very high temps. It's possible the thermal paste hasn't been applied properly and needs to be redone. Unfortunately you'd have to RMA it for that (if you aren't comfortable doing it yourself) with no guarantee it would solve the problem. You've got a very powerful processor and graphics card inside a laptop chassis, so you would expect some heat, but not in the 90s. I wouldn't be happy much above the 80s.

Out of curiosity have you tried undervolting the CPU? I got a Proteus VI RTX on Thursday with an RTX 2070 & I7-8750, not quite as powerful of a processor but otherwise not too dissimilar. It was idling at about 55C and when playing games getting up to 85C. After undervolting the CPU it now idles at about 45C and doesn't exceed 75C when gaming, so that might be worth a try.

 

[lewistimms]

Those are very high temps. It's possible the thermal paste hasn't been applied properly and needs to be redone. Unfortunately you'd have to RMA it for that (if you aren't comfortable doing it yourself) with no guarantee it would solve the problem. You've got a very powerful processor and graphics card inside a laptop chassis, so you would expect some heat, but not in the 90s. I wouldn't be happy much above the 80s.

Out of curiosity have you tried undervolting the CPU? I got a Proteus VI RTX on Thursday with an RTX 2070 & I7-8750, not quite as powerful of a processor but otherwise not too dissimilar. It was idling at about 55C and when playing games getting up to 85C. After undervolting the CPU it now idles at about 45C and doesn't exceed 75C when gaming, so that might be worth a try.

I thought they were as well! I might have to give it a try but i'm worried the laptop will go out of its 14 day return window (Something i do not want to do if it is a persistent problem). Personally from my experience building desktop PC's thermal compound does have an effect on temps but only if too little is applied. I completely understand that heat will be produced as you said though above 80 Degrees is worrying!!

I haven't tried to under volting it no! Doing this wouldn't sacrifice the power of the CPU would it

 

[de4life]

I thought they were as well! I might have to give it a try but i'm worried the laptop will go out of its 14 day return window (Something i do not want to do if it is a persistent problem). Personally from my experience building desktop PC's thermal compound does have an effect on temps but only if too little is applied. I completely understand that heat will be produced as you said though above 80 Degrees is worrying!!

I haven't tried to under volting it no! Doing this wouldn't sacrifice the power of the CPU would it

No, all undervolting does is give the CPU the minimum voltage necessary to perform as normal. Typically the CPU is given more voltage than is required to ensure there is no chance of it becoming unstable, but you can normally undervolt a decent amount whilst the system remains stable. I undervolted mine to -0.150 using the Intel Extreme Tuning utility and that seems to have had a positive effect. It's worth a shot. Even if you undervolt too far, all that will happen is the laptop will restart and return to normal voltage.

 

[lewistimms]

No, all undervolting does is give the CPU the minimum voltage necessary to perform as normal. Typically the CPU is given more voltage than is required to ensure there is no chance of it becoming unstable, but you can normally undervolt a decent amount whilst the system remains stable. I undervolted mine to -0.150 using the Intel Extreme Tuning utility and that seems to have had a positive effect. It's worth a shot. Even if you undervolt too far, all that will happen is the laptop will restart and return to normal voltage.

Great i'll give it a go soon! and then give it a try.

What would you recommend if it's still 80+?

 

[Oussebon]

Undervolting can actually improve performance through reducing power and/or thermal throttling.

What would you recommend if it's still 80+?

Buying a desktop. Unfortunately, Intel's CPUs will run very hot under heavy load in many laptop chassis these days. The low 80s would probably count as quite good.

While undervolting is a very good idea, I'd suggest testing further without the undervolt. The temps going upto 98 degrees under gaming load are still rather high.

Perhaps there's an issue with the cooling; a poor paste job, the fan profile not behaving as it should... i.e. something you want to resolve before you 'mask' the problem with an undervolt.

 

[de4life]

I'd agree to only undervolting after you've tried to identify the actual issue first. With that said you could undervolt to see if it makes a difference, then reset to normal voltage for further investigation. Either way my first suspicion would be the thermal paste.

If you're still struggling at 90c+ after investigating I'd have another word with PCS and see what your options are.

 

[lewistimms]

Undervolting can actually improve performance through reducing power and/or thermal throttling.

Buying a desktop. Unfortunately, Intel's CPUs will run very hot under heavy load in many laptop chassis these days. The low 80s would probably count as quite good.

While undervolting is a very good idea, I'd suggest testing further without the undervolt. The temps going upto 98 degrees under gaming load are still rather high.

Perhaps there's an issue with the cooling; a poor paste job, the fan profile not behaving as it should... i.e. something you want to resolve before you 'mask' the problem with an undervolt.

Well from your comments if this doesn't improve i think i would by trying to get a refund. Ill keep testing it over tonight and tomorrow.

I've got a desktop which i built but its a LGA1150 (bit out dated) id be upgrading this if i cant get the temps any lower. From reading up on undervolting it seems that the manufactures should do more research and setting it lower from factory? Would you say i'm right from that statement?

How are PC specialist with returns and refunds of a product with these problems?

 

[de4life]

Keep in mind modern processors are designed to deal with high temps and still go through a normal lifespan. Even gaming for hours at a time at 80-85c isn't likely to cause any major issues in terms of your processor's lifespan. I would be a little worried about going over 90c, but even then the hardware is still equipped to handle it. The laptop will just shut itself down if the temps get to a point where the chips are at risk of being damaged. At that point you know you have a serious problem.

Edit to note that even though high temps shouldn't adversely effect your processor's lifespan, it can have an impact on your gaming due to thermal throttling, core speed reduction, etc.

 

[lewistimms]

Keep in mind modern processors are designed to deal with high temps and still go through a normal lifespan. Even gaming for hours at a time at 80-85c isn't likely to cause any major issues in terms of your processor's lifespan. I would be a little worried about going over 90c, but even then the hardware is still equipped to handle it. The laptop will just shut itself down if the temps get to a point where the chips are at risk of being damaged. At that point you know you have a serious problem.

Edit to note that even though high temps shouldn't adversely effect your processor's lifespan, it can have an impact on your gaming due to thermal throttling, core speed reduction, etc.

True but i'm still not best please that I've been shipped a laptop reaching some pretty high temps and throttling.

I have attached pictures of their thermal Paste application.

 

[SpyderTracks]

True but i'm still not best please that I've been shipped a laptop reaching some pretty high temps and throttling.

I have attached pictures of their thermal Paste application.

That’s a pretty poor application imho. This does happen sometimes.

I would get a stick of thermal grizzly kryonaut thermal paste and add it yourself and then test again. That should reduce temps significantly. Then you can consider an undervolt.

 

[lewistimms]

That’s a pretty poor application imho. This does happen sometimes.

I would get a stick of thermal grizzly kryonaut thermal paste and add it yourself and then test again. That should reduce temps significantly. Then you can consider an undervolt.

Sweet i'll order some on prime! I don't want to come across as moany or anything but do you not think that when you're paying 1.5k for a laptop it should be fully working?

 

[SpyderTracks]

Sweet i'll order some on prime! I don't want to come across as moany or anything but do you not think that when you're paying 1.5k for a laptop it should be fully working?

Unfortunately these things do happen, they’re built by people and people make mistakes. I’ll grant you though, that I’m amazed it passed through testing.

If I were you I’d log a ticket with PCS making them aware of the high temps and providing the photos and just let them know you’re doing a repaste.

Firstly, it covers you should anything further happen, and secondly, they need to be pushing the importance of the paste application and testing phases, this should never have been sent out in the first place.

 

[SpyderTracks]

I’m also going to make the admins aware of this thread. It’s really important this is highlighted to them.

 

[lewistimms]

Unfortunately these things do happen, they’re built by people and people make mistakes. I’ll grant you though, that I’m amazed it passed through testing.

If I were you I’d log a ticket with PCS making them aware of the high temps and providing the photos and just let them know you’re doing a repaste.

Firstly, it covers you should anything further happen, and secondly, they need to be pushing the importance of the paste application and testing phases, this should never have been sent out in the first place.

I’m also going to make the admins aware of this thread. It’s really important this is highlighted to them.

Thank you! I did call them about the first instance but its significantly improve since the control center was reinstalled (maybe the fans weren't running correctly).

How do i log a ticket? I can see RMA but i dont want to return it unless the thermal paste makes no difference.

Thanks again.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Thank you! I did call them about the first instance but its significantly improve since the control center was reinstalled (maybe the fans weren't running correctly).

How do i log a ticket? I can see RMA but i dont want to return it unless the thermal paste makes no difference.

Thanks again.

I’d just send them an email in this instance including your order number as you don’t need an immediate response.

I do think control center controls the fans much better than the bios alone. It’s quite possibly why things improved.

 

[de4life]

Have to agree that it's hard to understand how the laptop passed the testing/QC phase if the pasting job was poor - high temps should have been highlighted during the stress testing and the laptop looked over again before being sent out. Especially as you paid extra for the better thermal paste. If you've paid £1500 for a laptop you should not have to be opening it up and redoing the thermal paste.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Have to agree that it's hard to understand how the laptop passed the testing/QC phase if the pasting job was poor - high temps should have been highlighted during the stress testing and the laptop looked over again before being sent out. Especially as you paid extra for the better thermal paste. If you've paid £1500 for a laptop you should not have to be opening it up and redoing the thermal paste.

Agreed, that’s pretty much exactly what I’ve just put to the admins.

 

[de4life]

True but i'm still not best please that I've been shipped a laptop reaching some pretty high temps and throttling.

I have attached pictures of their thermal Paste application.

You definitely shouldn't be happy with that, I was responding more to your thoughts on manufacturers being more realistic about voltages. From their perspective even though extra voltage may make the laptop run hotter, it will also reduce the chances of any instability issues with the CPU, whilst still allowing the processor to run a normal lifespan. It's basically win-win from their perspective. Obviously if you're a gamer it becomes a different issue because running hot and throttling can have a significant affect on certain games.

 

[lewistimms]

Thanks for all the views I’ll keep this thread updated and I’ll send them an email right now regarding this thread as well!

I work in a aerospace company and you’d struggle to get things such as the thermal past past our QC and inspection stages. Although a fighter jet is significantly more important at needing to be correct it shouldn’t matter. A good QC should be the same no matter what the product.