Feedback for New Gaming Laptop

[Kal-El dA]

Hello. I decided to get myself a new laptop mainly for gaming and some modelling/design software. I had experience with PCS before and although I had a lot of issues back then I decided to give them another try.

As mentioned, I need a laptop for gaming and design software. I already have a PC for heavy gaming and designing, so my laptop is just needed when I'm away from home, but I still wish for a decent laptop with good performance. My initial budget was around £800 but after trying some configuration, I decided that this build (Recoil III GTX) is the one that suit my requirement the most so I would appreciate if the staff can check it and give their feedback.

Another thing that that I would like to inquire is the difference between 15.6" Recoil III GTX and 15.6" Optimus IX. Both look similar in terms of build and the main difference seems to be the style and design. I decided to go with Recoil III since more information was given on the site which include mechanical keyboard narrow design etc. So I would appreciate if there is more information on the difference between them.

Also, if it is possible to reduce price by removing 'unnecessary' configuration, I would also like to know them although it seems that there isn't much change that can be made.

Thank you.

Chassis & Display
Recoil Series: 15.6" Matte Full HD 60Hz 72% NTSC LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 Six Core Processor 8750H (2.2GHz, 4.1GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)
8GB Corsair 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 Ti - 4.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1

FREE Geforce Fortnite bundle w/ select GTX cards
1st Storage Drive
1TB SEAGATE 7mm SERIAL ATA III 2.5" HARD DRIVE WITH 128MB CACHE (5,400rpm)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
128GB ADATA SU800 M.2 2280 (560 MB/R, 300 MB/W)
Memory Card Reader
Integrated 2 in 1 Memory Card Reader (SD, MMC)
AC Adaptor
1 x 120W AC Adaptor
Battery
Recoil II Series 46WH Lithium Ion Battery
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre Cloverleaf UK Power Cable
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
2 Channel High Def. Audio + SoundBlaster™ Cinema
Bluetooth & Wireless
GIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® AC-9260 M.2 (1.73Gbps, 802.11AC) +BT 5.0
USB/Thunderbolt Options
1 x USB 3.1 PORT (Type C) + 2 x USB 3.1 PORTS + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT
Keyboard Language
PER-KEY RGB BACKLIT USA MECHANICAL KEYBOARD
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
BullGuard™ Internet Security - Free 90 Day License inc. Gamer Mode
Browser
Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Carry Case
Belkin Chocolate/Tourmaline 15.6" Notebook Sleeve
Notebook Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 1MP HD WEBCAM
Warranty
3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 6 to 8 working days
Price: £947.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/recoil-iii-gtx-15/vRFt!P95BP/

 

[Kal-El dA]

I should also mention that I have HDD as my main storage drive (since I can't have HDD as 2nd) but of course I will install the OS on the second SSD.

 

[Scott]

Switched it up a tiny bit. For the difference in price the faster RAM is a no brainer. I also switched out the M2 drive to a 256GB WD Black. 256 is the absolute minimum I would recommend and as it will be for the OS the WD Black is a MUCH faster drive than previously selected. I also selected the silver warranty, it's worth it for £5.

The chassis differences are going to be primarily dimensions and aesthetics. Which unnecessary config options do you mean? If it's the free-trial software then they are free anyway so no discount would be offered.
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/recoil-iii-gtx-15/xyz!rsrSS0/

 

[Scott]

I had replied with the entire spec but the forum isn't allowing me to reply with it.

 

[Kal-El dA]

Thank you for the feedback. By different chassis I mean is there any difference if I were to change them. I don't want to spend more if it is not necessary. I am also considering 15.6" Viper with same configuration. The only difference I noticed is the display in which recoil have better display but costs £120 higher. So is it better to get viper instead if I don't mind the display?


Chassis & Display
Vyper Series: 15.6" Matte Full HD 45% NTSC LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 Six Core Processor 8750H (2.2GHz, 4.1GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)
8GB Corsair 2666MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 Ti - 4.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1st Storage Drive
1TB SEAGATE 7mm SERIAL ATA III 2.5" HARD DRIVE WITH 128MB CACHE (5,400rpm)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
250GB WD Black™ SN750 M.2 NVMe SSD (up to 3100MB/s R | 1600MB/s W)
Memory Card Reader
Integrated 2 in 1 Memory Card Reader (SD, MMC)
AC Adaptor
1 x 120W AC Adaptor
Battery
Vyper Series 46WH Lithium Ion Battery
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre Cloverleaf UK Power Cable
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
2 Channel High Definition Audio + MIC/Headphone Jack
Bluetooth & Wireless
GIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® AC-9260 M.2 (1.73Gbps, 802.11AC) +BT 5.0
USB/Thunderbolt Options
1 x USB 3.1 PORT (Type C) + 2 x USB 3.1 PORTS + 4 x USB 2.0 PORT
Keyboard Language
PER-KEY RGB BACKLIT UK MECHANICAL KEYBOARD
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
BullGuard™ Internet Security - Free 90 Day License inc. Gamer Mode
Browser
Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Notebook Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 1MP HD WEBCAM
Warranty
3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 8 to 10 working days
Price: £883.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/vyper-15/FNyzBFmJ5t/

 

[Scott]

If you're happy with the aesthetics and the screen differences then there's no reason to spend the extra money. The core components are exactly the same, there will be no difference in performance or functionality.

With design in mind the RGB accuracy may be worth considering though.

 

[Wildcard]

Your storage setup works only as long as the 250GB M.2 SSD is enough to host all your programs (OS and games). Otherwise you'll end up loading games from the slow HDD which is about as exciting as watching paint dry. 250GB seems very little for OS + games. In fact, the main reason I ended up ordering my new notebook from PCSpecialist is because most commercially available have this lackluster setup (why would I pay 2k for a new gaming laptop and then have 250GB usable storage plus a terabyte of snail speed storage?).

If you swap both drives out for a cheap 1TB (well, 960GB) ADATA SSD, you're actually cheaper.
If you swap both drives out for a cheap 2TB Seagate SSD, you're a bit more expensive.

Yes, they're both slower than an M.2 SSD, but in reality they are still very fast, and you get to actually use 1 or 2 TB of space. In your setup you only get to use 250GB, the 1TB hard drive can only be used as a dump for movies and other data that's not "performance criticial". Eventually, and my guess is "quite soon", you will fill those 250GB and will have to delete games that you're still playing. Or you'll end up deciding to replace the HDD with a cheap SSD.

Your decision, just something to think about

Also if you want to save money, you might want to remove the windows OS from the configurator and buy a key from a third party (am I allowed to say that here?).

 

[debiruman665]

Does no one consider optane memory to cache the 2TB disks or is it just meme memory?

 

[Wildcard]

Does no one consider optane memory to cache the 2TB disks or is it just meme memory?

Looking at the OP's setup:
250GB M.2 SSD (*****)
1TB HDD (*)
= 1046€

With Optane:
250GB M.2 SSD (*****)
1TB HDD (*)
16GB Optane
= 1104€

Replacing the HDD with a cheap SSD:
250GB M.2 SSD (*****)
1TB Adata SSD (***)
= 1112€

Why would you get a 16GB cache for your HDD if 8€ more buys you a (cheap) SSD of the same capacity? Serious question, everytime I hear about Optane I do the math and it just doesn't add up.

Cache is nice and good to have and all that, but ultimately caching a 1TB drive with 16GB (or 32 for that matter) means that most of the capacity is NOT cached. That works good enough if you generally use the same few percent of the data on that drive. But even having a single triple A game (40GB+) on that HDD means you'll have to deal with sluggish HDD speeds again.

I read the OP's storage requirements as "I need roundabout 1 TB of storage, and I'd like to have SSD for OS and programs/games. It should be as cheap as possible, as I'm already stretching my budget a bit"

So I'd forget about the M.2 SSD:
1TB Adata SSD (***)
= 1030€

Or, if we really want an M.2 SSD:
1 TB ADATA SX6000 M.2 (****)
= 1041€

The SX6000 is quite good in real life benchmarks, certainly a loter quicker than SATA SSDs. Not as quick as the best from Samsung/WD, but certainly better than getting a superhypermegafast tiny M.2 SSD and having to use the HDD for programs/games once you run out of space on it.

 

[debiruman665]

Do you consider a 2TB disk worth the Optane?

The optane memory (apparently) even makes the SSD's faster.


I'm only saying because of the recent thread I made which I'd like you to weigh in on

Storage Memory Considerations

My current setup m.2 : 128GB cheapest m.2 memory to hold the OS m2. : empty SATA1: 500GB Seagate SSHD that I repurposed from my old Optimus IV SATA2: 500GB EVO SSD Installing newer games I found myself quickly running out of space on the EVO SSD. I installed older games and general programs...

www.pcspecialist.co.uk

 

[Wildcard]

I have no practical experience with Optane memory (so you could say I'm talking out of my ar$e). But I know how Caching workings. Caching is a brilliant technology, in the right scenario. For example take a big Oracle database holding all of a companies data, say 1TB of orders, addresses, invoices etc. The database server uses 16GB of RAM for the Oracle software, most of which is used for various caches. On a regular day, you would probably witness a cache hit ratio of over 99%. That's because a vast majority of all operations are carried out on a small subset of the actual data. Simply put, the 1TB database holds data of the last 15 years, and most users are only interested in data of the last 2 months.

Now looking at what I consider the normal case for home computing. There are two categories for data:
a) Real time critical: OS and games/programs need to load as quick as possible. Especially in games it's important that data gets loaded quickly, for example with games that load data in the middle of a level while you're playing the game.
b) Non real time critical: My music, movies, TV shows and pretty much all other data. Even a 4k film can be loaded off a 5400rpm HDD without any delay. It doesn't matter whether the drive can deliver 1GB/s or 50MB/s, if streaming the movie only takes 5MB/s.

It's pretty black and white for me: Stuff in category a) has to come from an SSD. I've gotten used to it by now, I can't go back to waiting minutes for things to load. No thank you. The fast the better, of course. Stuff in category b) can lie on a HDD.

What does that mean for Optane (or any method of caching)?
I don't want or need Optane for category b). It doesn't matter. If I have money left I'd rather spend it on something else. If I really want to treat myself I'll use SSD storage for my category b) demands as well.
I don't want Optane for category a) either. Because either the underlying drive is "fast enough" (then I'm happy with what I have) or it is not (then I'd be better off replacing that drive instead of applying an expensive Optane bandaid). Also, the things in category a) are too big to be reliably cached by relatively tiny Optane cache.

I'm sure Optane can speed up a slower SSD. For the price it costs, it better does. It can definitely speed up write operations, but it can only speed up read operations if it already holds the data you want in its cache. When you're playing a game or even a few games off the Optane powered drive, it won't be able to cache everything, and will end up having to read most of the data from the underlying drive.

In your case, it depends on how much money you want to throw at it. If you have plenty of money to play with, I'd throw in either a big (2TB) SATA SSD or a decent 1TB M.2. The last thing I'd do is apply another bandaid, because if you do that, you'll have 4 drives in that laptop which are all very meh in a few years time. Buy something cheap, and you'll end up throwing it out in a few years. Buy something decent, and you'll repurpose it a few times over the next couple years.

I also agree that as far as priorities go: OS > Games > Applications > Data.

IMHO: Optane will go the same direction ReadyBoost went. But maybe that's just me talking out of my rear end.

 

[Scott]

There's no way Optane would make an SSD meaningfully faster. I can only imagine it showing up synthetically.

It's a waste of money IMO.

 

[Oussebon]

I'm pretty sure techreport did an article where they measured benefits of an Optane module on a Sata SSD (among other things), but can't find it...

(Edit: for the avoidance of ambiguity, I wouldn't waste an M.2 slot on an optane module, just saying as an aside that I think there's an article from a decent tech website on the subject out there)

 

[ubuysa]

I'm pretty sure techreport did an article where they measured benefits of an Optane module on a Sata SSD (among other things), but can't find it...

I also remember reading that there was a marginal improvement because Optane is higher up the storage hierarchy, but it would not be cost effective to buy Optane for use with an SSD, the benefits are just not worth it.

TBH the value of Optane with an HDD depends entirely on the data access patterns. It's not a 'cure all' for sure.

 

[debiruman665]

I also remember reading that there was a marginal improvement because Optane is higher up the storage hierarchy, but it would not be cost effective to buy Optane for use with an SSD, the benefits are just not worth it.

TBH the value of Optane with an HDD depends entirely on the data access patterns. It's not a 'cure all' for sure.

2TB SEAGATE 5400rpm £69.20
+
optane 32GB £77.03

£146.50

OR

m.2 2TB 377.88

OR

SSD 2TB £255.83


Optane did not set out to make SSD's obsolete but instead to extend the lives of large capacity Hard drives.

It's debatable on whether buying a brand new HDD and optane instead of forking out another £100 is the best allocation of resources, but if you already have a big HDD it might be a no brainer.

Personally, I'm still undecided. I might compress my EVO 500GB ssd in order to get more out of it for now.


Now lets consider... Optane with an SSHD hybrid drive.

 

[ubuysa]

I would never advise someone to go for a Optane+HDD option rather than an SSD. I'd also never advise anyone to buy Optane+SSD.

TBH for a home user a regular 7200rpm HDD will deliver perfectly good enough performance for most user data on it's own.

 

[debiruman665]

I would never advise someone to go for a Optane+HDD option rather than an SSD. I'd also never advise anyone to buy Optane+SSD.

TBH for a home user a regular 7200rpm HDD will deliver perfectly good enough performance for most user data on it's own.

The 2TB disks are 5200rpm,

 

[ubuysa]

The 2TB disks are 5200rpm,

So?

 

[debiruman665]

So?

I recently installed windows on a 1TB 5200rpm disk on my old Optimus. It took several minutes to boot windows. I literally felt embarrassed giving it to him.

 

[ubuysa]

I recently installed windows on a 1TB 5200rpm disk on my old Optimus. It took several minutes to boot windows. I literally felt embarrassed giving it to him.

HDDs still have a very useful part to play in home PCs and laptops as data drives, and especially those used for music and/or video (where an SSD buys you nothing at all).

It's important to understand however, that not all HDDs are created equal; the three components that contribute to HDD response time are; seek, latency, and data transfer time.

Latency is fixed of course, it depends on the rotational speed of the disk (5400rpm and 7200rpm for most home drives).

Seek time is both a function of the drive mechanics, some drives seek faster than others, but also the level of file fragmentation, and even down to how full the drive is. Seek time can be improved by proper disk management (cleaning garbage and defragging for example).

Data transfer time is the component that's least well understood and often ignored (but like latency it's fixed for a given drive). Basically it's how fast you can suck the data off the disk surface as it passes under the read/write heads, this depends almost entirely on the data density of the drive. High density drives can read/write data much faster than lower density drives, simply because a high density drive has more bits per mm of disk space, so you read/write more bits per ms of rotation. If you're working with big files this difference can be very significant.

Data transfer time is also affected by the disk geometry. A premium 1TB drive using a single platter will (must) have a high data density and thus a short data transfer time. A cheaper 1TB drive using two 500GB low density platters will have a considerably longer data transfer time and will thus offer much poorer performance.

Low data transfer times also massively impact busy drives (such as a Windows drive at boot time) because each I/O takes that much longer and so the I/O queue length becomes excessive. A high density drives make a big difference here because with each I/O taking less time the I/O queue length is reduced.

If the 1TB drive on which you recently installed Windows was a cheap low density multi-platter drive then it will be slow, but that doesn't mean that ALL 1TB drives will be that slow, a 1TB single platter 7200rpm drive will be noticeably faster for example, especially when it's very active (like at boot time). And even a 5400rpm high density drive will be noticeably faster.