Intel 13th and 14th Gen confirmed defective

[TonyCarter]

Intel's new naming scheme will be something like:

• i3 = Bogart
• i5 = Flasher
• i7 = Mohawk
• i9 = Stripe

Rules for Intel buyers:

1. Do not expose Intel to high powers. The reaction causes a motherboard to either be killed via a gruesome melting process, as seen with i9 14900KS on youtube, until the CPU's own silicon melts away. If exposed briefly, Intel crashes with no BSOD. Intels are known to be afraid of sustained workloads and high clocks.
2. Do not get Intel wet. The reaction with water, causes Intel to spawn more cores. However, the creature will only spawn efficiency versions.
3. Do not use Intel after midnight. Intel seem to instinctively desire to self-destruct after midnight in order to advance to the thermonuclear stage of their evolution. Upon feeding after midnight, Intel become encased in lava and go through a metamorphosis into the i9 form.

names of the gremlins from the movies

 

[SpyderTracks]

I just thought I'd link back to the announcement and reviews of the 10th Gen Intels and what was being said at the time, this was 4 years ago, 10th gen was just a refresh of the first Skylake which was 6th Gen released in 2015, every processor up until 11th Gen was simply a refresh, adding cores and increasing frequency and voltages.

Intel 10th Gen Desktop processor line up

For those that are interested, the upcoming 10th Series Intel desktop CPU's, they do require a new socket despite being the exact same chipset, these are just rebranded and overclocked 9000 series chips. https://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/3576-intel-gen-10-cpu-specs-10900k-delid-oc-support

www.pcspecialist.co.uk

It wasn't until Ryzen 3000 hit alongside 10th Gen that Intel recognised they finally had a fight on their hands and actually had to start looking at new designs again. They spent the better part of a decade simply refreshing and screwing customers.

The IPC uplift from 5th Gen Broadwell through to 10th Gen which was the last of the Skylake designs was only 10%!!!! You'd typically find that in an architecture shift within a 2 year window.

Intel 5th-Gen Core vs. 10th-Gen Core Architecture Benchmarked

You'd be forgiven if you had no idea Intel had a 5th-gen desktop CPU range, there were only 2 parts, and neither were on sale for long....

www.techspot.com

Intel got too big for their boots and thought they could rest on their laurels and it's bitten them in the behind. Their only solution, as their architecture is simply inferior is to apply every ounce of overclock available, to the point where it's actually now damaging CPU's, and rather than take ownership of their mistakes, and help customers achieve stability at the expense of performance and work with their partners rather than blaming them, they're answer is to gaslight everyone and deny it's anything to do with them.

4th Gen parts were a refresh of 3rd Gen which was called Haswell released in 2013, that is the last REAL Intel processor where they were actually innovating. The rest since has been either lying to customers, or desperately trying to keep relevant.

And the whole big / little architecture since 12th Gen, is simply irrelevant on the X86 architecture, the whole point of big / little is to offload resources onto low power weaker cores TO SAVE ENERGY during menial tasks like working on the desktop. Where exactly is any of this energy saving on 12th to 14th Gen??? It's completely meaningless. The reason I suspect they've done this, is because the eCores are the old Atom architecture which goes all the way back to PineView in 2009. These are a seriously old architecture, but as such have extremely high yields and therefor low cost. You can see Intels strategy with the 14700k was simply to add 4 more eCores. That's absolutely zero to do with any kind of efficiency or power saving. It's simply to cut costs and keep thermal tolerances as they were unable to increase P cores above 8 without exceeding thermal limits as their efficiency just sucks!

15th Gen is really their last chance to really make something worthwhile, and they HAVE to dictate REAL baselines for board manufacturers, all this gaslighting that any voltage application out of the box is "in spec" is just offensive. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some board partners dropping Intel support for 15th Gen as a result of this.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Update, silicon degradation is confirmed, Intel still passing the buck, board partners becoming fed up

 

[TonyCarter]

 

[Martinr36]

So to summarise that video

AMD knocks Intel out of the park while using far less power

AMD gives way better bang for the Buck than Intel

 

[Scott]

AMD supports the future as well.

It's a complete whitewash.

200w difference in gaming is completely wild.

 

[SpyderTracks]

This is crazy, I was searching for any pre launch threads on 13th gen

As a forum we’ve hated on Intel for a while now, for me their behaviour since before 10th gen was what put me off them aside from performance related niggles

This was all I could find titled 13th gen which was 4 months before release based on expected performance from leaked results. I did search for “Alder Lake“ and ”Alder Lake” too but nothing came up

Ironically if you factor in applying Intel Baseline limits, even these estimates would have been conservative.

It does seem by 13th gen we’d given up on any hype

Intel 13th Gen leaks

So, it's nearing the time where leaks can be valuable nuggets of reality so I'm putting a thread up. Take this with an absolute pinch of salt but these are early leaked benchmarks of the 13900k in gaming: 13900K vs 12900K (Leaked Gaming Benches): 1080p Avg FPS - 4.22% Faster 1440p Avg FPS -...

www.pcspecialist.co.uk

But I found this from shortly after the 12th gen release

Post in thread 'Early reports from retailers is that 12th Gen Intel sales are poor'
https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/foru...th-gen-intel-sales-are-poor.85912/post-667357

The last paragraph does ring true!

 

[SpyderTracks]

The latest update

TLDR, there was a bug in the "Thermal Velocity Boost" profile but Intel have admitted this was just one of the attributing factors and it hasn't fixed the issue, so still ongoing, this is after 6 months of blatantly gaslighting board partners and customers saying it was entirely the motherboards issues.

 

[TonyCarter]

Interesting deep-dive into some game crash telemetry...and some idea of how skewed these crashes are towards the 13900/14900 CPUs.

The whole video is very interesting, but the place I've linked to is where they show how much a CPU & service contract is for an AMD and Intel option, for an online gaming server provider...and what their recommendations are.

 

[HomerJ]

 

[SpyderTracks]

Ok if we merge this with the Intel crashing thread?

Wendell is crazy intelligent, he's like Buildzoid in his understanding of maths and electrical circuits at a very low level. I find him quite hard to understand at times, not his fault in any way, he just goes quite advanced sometimes.

But he understands CPUs at this level better than anyone really, perhaps T1n from EVGA and Bearded Hardware

But Wendell understands it at such a low level because he codes at the microcode level proficiently

But Steve Jesus is hyper intelligent on his own, but next to Wendell just seems like a n00b

 

[SpyderTracks]

It's good to see some pressure, I wish board manufacturers would be more outspoken, but they're probably concerned about contractual agreements.

But Intel need some actual pressure, not just from the community but from their partners, they're never going to properly address this until it hits their bottom line.

Currently it seems they're just trying to wing it until 15th Gen releases

Game publisher claims 100% crash rate with Intel CPUs – Alderon Games says company sells defective 13th and 14th gen chips

No amount of BIOS or firmware updates fix the problem.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[HomerJ]

It's good to see some pressure, I wish board manufacturers would be more outspoken, but they're probably concerned about contractual agreements.

But Intel need some actual pressure, not just from the community but from their partners, they're never going to properly address this until it hits their bottom line.

Currently it seems they're just trying to wing it until 15th Gen releases

Game publisher claims 100% crash rate with Intel CPUs – Alderon Games says company sells defective 13th and 14th gen chips

No amount of BIOS or firmware updates fix the problem.

www.tomshardware.com

100% wow

 

[SpyderTracks]

Just looking through now, Buildzoid has his impressions after Wendell’s video

first 15 minutes is him coming to terms with the fact that these cpus are not fit for purpose

 

[SpyderTracks]

This is really good, serious pressure hitting Intel now from all areas

These are the units they reckon are affected at this time, they currently have no legitimate information on 14th Gen, but it's likely a time factor as they're 6 months behind 13th gen, so expect those numbers to be hitting around September.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Hmmmm, Intel have an official response finally!

TLDR: They're saying it's too high voltages and are rolling out a microcode update to set proper limits

Intel Publishes Official Response To 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPU Instability Issues: Cites Elevated Operating Voltages As Root Cause, New Microcode Patch In August

Intel has an official statement regarding 13th and 14th Gen CPU instability issues, citing elevating operating voltages as the root cause.

wccftech.com

Expected release is Mid-August

I'm calling it right now, this is only part of the problem from what we've been told by several experts who've done extensive analysis on this.

A lot of server side installations in datacenters are experiencing the same issues, and those motherboards DO NOT ALLOW over voltage. This would also suggest it's only affecting K series CPU's which can be unlocked to draw extra voltages, but it's been confirmed to be affecting non-k cpu's also.

1/. Unlimited voltages allowed IMPLICITLY confirmed as "In Spec" by Intel, they still haven't stated otherwise, although are now rolling out this patch to limit

2/. Oxidisation on the VIAs, due to incorrect application of anti-oxidant at the factory. This results in higher resistance which means even if you are passing through lower voltages, the resistance is going to result in increased thermals in those sections

3/. It's been confirmed by consumer and professional sources that a lot of CPU's out of the box on boards with full power limits in place are still experiencing instability.

This is by no means fixed, and quite frankly it's insulting from Intel just further ignoring the communities feedback.

GN in the video above have employed a Failure Analysis lab to basically tear down several affected CPU's to determine at a microscopic level what can be seen from oxidisation through to silicon deterioration, and which specific areas may be affected.

This is not done in any way, Intel should have made that clear in this statement! They've stated this is a root cause fix which means they're closing the book, totally unacceptable.

 

[HomerJ]

Hmmmm, Intel have an official response finally!

TLDR: They're saying it's too high voltages and are rolling out a microcode update to set proper limits

Intel Publishes Official Response To 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPU Instability Issues: Cites Elevated Operating Voltages As Root Cause, New Microcode Patch In August

Intel has an official statement regarding 13th and 14th Gen CPU instability issues, citing elevating operating voltages as the root cause.

wccftech.com

Expected release is Mid-August

I'm calling it right now, this is only part of the problem from what we've been told by several experts who've done extensive analysis on this.

A lot of server side installations in datacenters are experiencing the same issues, and those motherboards DO NOT ALLOW over voltage. This would also suggest it's only affecting K series CPU's which can be unlocked to draw extra voltages, but it's been confirmed to be affecting non-k cpu's also.

1/. Unlimited voltages allowed IMPLICITLY confirmed as "In Spec" by Intel, they still haven't stated otherwise, although are now rolling out this patch to limit

2/. Oxidisation on the VIAs, due to incorrect application of anti-oxidant at the factory. This results in higher resistance which means even if you are passing through lower voltages, the resistance is going to result in increased thermals in those sections

3/. It's been confirmed by consumer and professional sources that a lot of CPU's out of the box on boards with full power limits in place are still experiencing instability.

This is by no means fixed, and quite frankly it's insulting from Intel just further ignoring the communities feedback.

GN in the video above have employed a Failure Analysis lab to basically tear down several affected CPU's to determine at a microscopic level what can be seen from oxidisation through to silicon deterioration, and which specific areas may be affected.

This is not done in any way, Intel should have made that clear in this statement! They've stated this is a root cause fix which means they're closing the book, totally unacceptable.

didnt L1T say this may not be able to be fixed with an update fully, i think intel may find this is quite damaging in the long run, thanks for the update

 

[TonyCarter]

Do they really think they can ‘fix’ silicon degradation with a software fix, or are they just playing for time until they have enough ‘clean’ silicon to replace all those currently out there?

 

[SpyderTracks]

Do they really think they can ‘fix’ silicon degradation with a software fix, or are they just playing for time until they have enough ‘clean’ silicon to replace all those currently out there?

There's also talk that this upcoming microcode update will reduce max RAM speeds to 4800MHz, and also reduce max boosts to 5.4GHz!!!
If any of that is true people aint gonna be happy

This is all hearsay at this point, please don't anyone take it as fact.

 

[Scott]

They're completely winging it until their next release.

The thing is though, and it's absolutely crazy to see this, people are and will still be after Intel systems. They have such a grip on peoples mindset that they are gambling that they have enough of a foothold that they will get away with this.

I wish the gen-pop were more in tune and open minded than they seem to be. It would stop behaviour like this in its tracks. For Intel to be able to afford this sort of screw up is crazy. AMD would have never survived something like this previously, I don't even think they would now to be honest. All you would have would be people coming out of the woodwork saying "told you so" where as the fan boi's for Intel will currently be thinking/saying that Intel will fix it.

The saving grace for Intel is they are well known to have some fairly large brushes for sweeping. The only thing against them just now is time, in reality it's a LONG time to wait for the 15th gen brainwash.