is it worth upgrading?

[TBirdUK]

Hi

I have a problem, and would value advice, I am not a Gamer but have worked in IT hardware since before it was called IT and run a fairly massive data base that is resource hungry in pure proccessing, the Application is a windows 32 bit app modded for 64 bit that is VERY single threaded and when running sorts just uses one processor that swaps cores regularly.
The machine I bought 30 months ago was good at the time but the database has grown by about 30% (currently just over 300MB) and I am spending increasing time every day watching the Sort run (takes about 15 minutes and I hear the fans trying to keep the temperature below 60 degrees!), I did upgrade the cooling system late last year to a Corsair H80i as the H60 failed, but am now wondering if it is time to upgrade/replace? Have single threaded Processor speed improved meaningfully can I upgrade memory speed?
Please don't worry about the graphics I really don't need anything fancy 1920x1080 is fine for these old eyes.

Case
InWIN 805 Type C BLACK MID TOWER GAMING CASE
Overclocked CPU
Overclocked Intel® Core™ i7-8700K Six Core (3.7GHz @ up to 4.8GHz)
Motherboard
Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Ultra Gaming: ATX, LG1151, USB 3.1, SATA 6GBs - RGB Ready
Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3200MHz (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 1050 Ti - DVI, HDMI, DP
1st Storage Drive
2TB SEAGATE FIRECUDA 3.5" SSHD
1st M.2 SSD Drive
512GB SAMSUNG 960 PRO M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3500MB/R, 2100MB/W)
External DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
8x Slim USB 2.0 External DVD-RW
Power Supply
CORSAIR 650W TXm SERIES™ SEMI-MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Corsair H60 Hydro Cooler w/ PCS Liquid Series Ultra Quiet Fans
Thermal Paste
EK-TIM ECTOTHERM THERMAL COMPOUND
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
ASUS PCE-AC88 AC3100 2100Mbps/5GHz, 1000Mbps/2.4GHz
USB/Thunderbolt Options
2 PORT (1 x TYPE A, 1 x TYPE C) USB 3.1 PCI-E CARD + STANDARD USB PORTS
Operating System
Windows 10 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 (64-bit) DVD with paper sleeve

 

[Grinty]

If I'm reading the specs right then Intel's 10th generation CPUs have turbo clock rates of up to 5.3GHz (for the i9-10900K and 10980HK). If you're running a single-threaded load then that's probably the metric you care about, so you'll get a roughly 10% speedup. The system cost will be pretty substantial (£500 CPU, a motherboard that supports it, a cooler that can pull heat out of it fast enough, etc) so may not be worth it.

How's your memory bandwidth? If your CPU/motherboard supports it you might get a boost by swapping your RAM for 3600MHz parts.

Finally, and it's probably something you're sick of hearing by now, is there any way to have that application re-written to be multi-threaded?

 

[SpyderTracks]

That board can accomodate 9th Gen processors, I'm not saying it would necessarily be a big improvement, I think the database itself is the bottleneck rather than the processor, but upping to the 9900k on the CPU plus a H100i Platinum may make somewhat of an improvement. You could then overclock the GPU to at least 5.2GHz on all cores which would be a marked improvement in single core speeds.

I wouldn't bother with the 10th Gen, apart from more cores, they are just refreshed and overclocked 9th Gen chips anyway, there's literally no difference.

Intel Core i9 9900K/KF Overclocking Guide

We give you the lowdown on overclocking Intel's Core i9 9900K/KF CPU on various brand motherboards with loads of tips and information.

www.tweaktown.com

 

[SpyderTracks]

Actually on further review it seems the 9700k is actually easier to overclock for single core speeds, suggests 5.3 is easily achievable, so either processor depending on budget:

The Intel 9th Gen Review: Core i9-9900K, Core i7-9700K and Core i5-9600K Tested

www.anandtech.com

With the i7, you should be ok with your current H80i as well so further saving there.

 

[Charlas]

9700k is a great overclocker and you can get binned ones as well.

However,correct me if I'm wrong, 300mb dB is causing you issues? If it is it needs a rework as that shouldn't even challenge a raspberry pi let alone a core i7. 300 gig, yeah maybe, but that doesn't sound like a solution you should throw expensive hardware at, personal opinion, but hey.

 

[SpyderTracks]

9700k is a great overclocker and you can get binned ones as well.

However,correct me if I'm wrong, 300mb dB is causing you issues? If it is it needs a rework as that shouldn't even challenge a raspberry pi let alone a core i7. 300 gig, yeah maybe, but that doesn't sound like a solution you should throw expensive hardware at, personal opinion, but hey.

I agree, does appear the db needs some work.

 

[Charlas]

I agree, does appear the db needs some work.

The media database on my plex server is nearly 10 times the size 😊

And some of the db's I work with on daily basis are well over 1000 times it.... But hey, Azure deals with those nowadays thankfully 😊

 

[TBirdUK]

Finally, and it's probably something you're sick of hearing by now, is there any way to have that application re-written to be multi-threaded?

My word you must be psychic Multi threading probably won't help as the sort is preparing the array for a 360k line datagrid, out of a proprietory DB (dates back to the days when Microsoft thought the the world was created in 1970 and didn't quite "get" the Julian Calendar)

Thanks for the advice but that's a lot of bucks for a small return so I might try the RAM route first as that might get me 12.5%!
oh for the 486 days days when a processor upgrade doubled the speed every 4 years.....

 

[Charlas]

My word you must be psychic Multi threading probably won't help as the sort is preparing the array for a 360k line datagrid, out of a proprietory DB (dates back to the days when Microsoft thought the the world was created in 1970 and didn't quite "get" the Julian Calendar)

Thanks for the advice but that's a lot of bucks for a small return so I might try the RAM route first as that might get me 12.5%!
oh for the 486 days days when a processor upgrade doubled the speed every 4 years.....

Could always try a 240mm AIO on the CPU and see what you can clock it up to as long as the mainboard allows 'tuning'.

Also, run a mild undervolt on it, 8th gen's like a -100mv undervolt for the most part, that might get you a few more CPU cycles through (as should mainting it's clock for longer) and if the BIOS allows it turn off hyper threading, as will get you nowhere beside having to manage extra thread lines.

Depending what the DB is written in and the likes, have you tried creating a VM for it, limiting the VM to a single core, but have the hypervisor allowed to all the cores, in some workloads you can 'scavenge' cycles from other cores into the 'virtual single core'. Seen it work with Cobol stuff and legacy Pascal stuff in the past. but needs work to research and develop it.

The last option is to use something like Process lasso, and block one of the cores from any other tasks including OS, and force your process to use it exclusively (use HWMonitor to see which Core the CPU is favoring for its single core boost).

 

[Charlas]

I use a similar technique for my server machine, so tyhe hypervisor has dedicated cores, and some tasks are locked away from some threads, as you can see top process only allowed on all cores of the second procesor, the services underneath allowed everything but HyperThreading and last one allowed all threads 0-31

Just to give you an idea. Can get complex quick though if you have lots of processes/tasks/apps that need to be steared one way or the other.

 

[TBirdUK]

The BIOS does not seem to allow disabling HT, not sure if it is the MBD or the CPU disabling it.

 

[Charlas]

Bugger, would have bought you a bunch of processing capability for single threaded stuff.... How all the extreme overclockers get their core speeds

Just looked at your board information, It's under "Advanced CPU Features" in M.I.T.

 

[TBirdUK]

I had seen that but couldn't find it (see image)

if you go into the frequency section there is another section " Advanced CPU Features" but HT setting is not visible because the sidebar slider doesn't work and it is 3 pages down the list!

Thanks, disabling HT has cut processing time by 20% and the drop in core temps is huge (57 deg down to 36)

 

[Charlas]

Welcome 😁 most people forget that Hyper thread only helps in heavily threaded stuff, single threaded it deffo worth getting the 15-20% native core performance back

👍

 

[ubuysa]

Welcome 😁 most people forget that Hyper thread only helps in heavily threaded stuff, single threaded it deffo worth getting the 15-20% native core performance back

👍

Not only that, but Intel hyperthreading is where most of their security issues are.....