Laptop with quiet and superior cooling wanted. €1500 budget

[amdolev]

Hello all, read under the dotted line to see my original post. My requirements and focus have changed a bit, and so is the type of advise I'm looking for. I might be looking for a unicorn here, or something way above my budget, but I think it makes sense to ask.
Below you will also find my life story and the use case for my laptop.

Too make it short:
I prefer a laptop that will be quiet and run relatively cool. The dimensions don't matter, and both 15.6 and 17.3 are welcome. I showed my wife the difference in sizes and she said "sure". This was a good Father's day. 🤪
Min CPU: i7-10750H or 4800H. preferred i7-10850H.
Min GPU: 1660Ti but prefer RTX2060 and will go up to 2070 if I can.

All other parts can be minimal or absent, as I have my own. no OS needed. Extra cooling paste is a good idea.
As the topic says, my top budget is €1500.

..........................................
Original topic: Vyper III vs Defiance VII vs Recoil IV - 15.6"
Hi Everyone, nice to be here!
I'm on a search for a new gaming laptop. I have a 5 year old Lenovo E550 with i5 and baseline dedicated GPU that can't run current games anymore (and didn't do a great job earlier with it either). Prior to that, between 2009 and 2015 I had a serious gaming laptop which was loud, heavy (4.5kg) and had 40min. idle battery life.
Wanting a PC that would run my games for a few more years, I decided to dive into the rabbit hole of customized chassis again and see what's on offer.
TBH, I'm not a heavy gamer and I mostly do management simulations or turn based strategy (last 2 games were CIV 6 and Tropico 6, both barely move on my current laptop). I don't have other heavy uses for the laptop. The only requirement that it would not look like a beast, as it sits on the dining table, and should be aesthetic, so my wife won't nag me to put it away when not in use. Therefore, my 15.6" requirement.

After looking at 10 brands (including ASUS, MSI, Lenovo) and about 25 different models, I narrowed it down to PCS as the brand, and the following 3 models:
Vyper III, Defiance VII and Recoil IV. The i7-10850H was the selling point for me (though I was eyeing the 4800H originally). I thought I'd be happy with a 1660Ti GPU, but it was a quick decision to opt for 2060 instead.

The configuration of the laptops is thus, the same: The 10850 and the 2060 with minimal RAM\SSD parts (I bring my own), with extra cooling paste and no Windows license.

The Vyper and Defiance end up at €1300 and the Recoil at €1500 (with the 240Hz screen instead of 144Hz with the others). My original budget was indeed around the €1300 and only the first 2 were real original candidates.
So after this long intro - here are my set of questions:
1) What is the selling point of each chassis, or the mortal difference between them? The Vyper is light, but why would the Defiance costs the same, despite being 300g heavier and from plastic?
Looking at the forums, I see owners of the Vyper complaining about various issues, mostly around battery life and temperatures. I saw similar complaints with the Vyper II.
I couldn't really find any review over the defiance VII. The Recoil was offered as an upgrade from the Vyper in one of the posts, so does the Recoil also have better heat management?

2) On to GPU: I thought about upgrading from 2060 to the 2070 (Vyper) or 2070MaxQ (Defiance), for a ~€150 bump. Again, will the Vyper stand the heat? If I go for recoil = no GPU upgrade. I know MaxQ is not the best upgrade vs the 2060, but can anyone comment how this fares with PCS laptops?

3) Do thicker laptops necessarily disperse heat better? In this case, the Optimus XI might also be an option

4) I never used a laptop cooling pad, and the wife wouldn't like another cable \ noise going on in the room. Will this be a dealbreaker?

I really appreciate your input in advance.
My finger is trigger happy, and I want to make sure I'm aiming at the right target!
..........................................

Thank you again for your help!!

 

[lewisclark607]

Hi Everyone, nice to be here!
I'm on a search for a new gaming laptop. I have a 5 year old Lenovo E550 with i5 and baseline dedicated GPU that can't run current games anymore (and didn't do a great job earlier with it either). Prior to that, between 2009 and 2015 I had a serious gaming laptop which was loud, heavy (4.5kg) and had 40min. idle battery life.
Wanting a PC that would run my games for a few more years, I decided to dive into the rabbit hole of customized chassis again and see what's on offer.
TBH, I'm not a heavy gamer and I mostly do management simulations or turn based strategy (last 2 games were CIV 6 and Tropico 6, both barely move on my current laptop). I don't have other heavy uses for the laptop. The only requirement that it would not look like a beast, as it sits on the dining table, and should be aesthetic, so my wife won't nag me to put it away when not in use. Therefore, my 15.6" requirement.

After looking at 10 brands (including ASUS, MSI, Lenovo) and about 25 different models, I narrowed it down to PCS as the brand, and the following 3 models:
Vyper III, Defiance VII and Recoil IV. The i7-10850H was the selling point for me (though I was eyeing the 4800H originally). I thought I'd be happy with a 1660Ti GPU, but it was a quick decision to opt for 2060 instead.

The configuration of the laptops is thus, the same: The 10850 and the 2060 with minimal RAM\SSD parts (I bring my own), with extra cooling paste and no Windows license.

The Vyper and Defiance end up at €1300 and the Recoil at €1500 (with the 240Hz screen instead of 144Hz with the others). My original budget was indeed around the €1300 and only the first 2 were real original candidates.
So after this long intro - here are my set of questions:
1) What is the selling point of each chassis, or the mortal difference between them? The Vyper is light, but why would the Defiance costs the same, despite being 300g heavier and from plastic?
Looking at the forums, I see owners of the Vyper complaining about various issues, mostly around battery life and temperatures. I saw similar complaints with the Vyper II.
I couldn't really find any review over the defiance VII. The Recoil was offered as an upgrade from the Vyper in one of the posts, so does the Recoil also have better heat management?

2) On to GPU: I thought about upgrading from 2060 to the 2070 (Vyper) or 2070MaxQ (Defiance), for a ~€150 bump. Again, will the Vyper stand the heat? If I go for recoil = no GPU upgrade. I know MaxQ is not the best upgrade vs the 2060, but can anyone comment how this fares with PCS laptops?

3) Do thicker laptops necessarily disperse heat better? In this case, the Optimus XI might also be an option

4) I never used a laptop cooling pad, and the wife wouldn't like another cable \ noise going on in the room. Will this be a dealbreaker?

I really appreciate your input in advance.
My finger is trigger happy, and I want to make sure I'm aiming at the right target!

I have a recoil IV, owned for five weeks or so now, and I love it, no complaints. For the sort of games you are talking about it will run almost soundlessly (I use the turbo boost for about five minutes for every hour or so of playing something like EUiv - turbo is loud though) and temps will be fine. I use the cool master cooling pad offered by PCS, it connects by usb and runs at 30dbor so which is barely noticeable) And it does make a difference (even if it’s just because it raises the base of the laptop).

 

[amdolev]

I have a recoil IV, owned for five weeks or so now, and I love it, no complaints. For the sort of games you are talking about it will run almost soundlessly (I use the turbo boost for about five minutes for every hour or so of playing something like EUiv - turbo is loud though) and temps will be fine. I use the cool master cooling pad offered by PCS, it connects by usb and runs at 30dbor so which is barely noticeable) And it does make a difference (even if it’s just because it raises the base of the laptop).

Indeed, it was your comments about the Recoil that made me add it to what I thought was my final shortlist . Looking forward to some more insight over the weekend.

 

[plzt]

I'm having a very similar dilemma, though I think I had discounted the recoil as it is thicker and heavier - though a 240hz screen would be nice I'm not sure how much use would be gained over a 144 that the other 2 have. It also comes out more expensive (by about £200) for the same specs.
Still don't know between the Vyper and Defiance though

 

[amdolev]

I'm having a very similar dilemma, though I think I had discounted the recoil as it is thicker and heavier - though a 240hz screen would be nice I'm not sure how much use would be gained over a 144 that the other 2 have. It also comes out more expensive (by about £200) for the same specs.
Still don't know between the Vyper and Defiance though

Could anyone confirm what I'm thinking?:
Vyper is the chinese chasis from Tongfeng.
Defiance is from Taiwanese Clevo (PC50D*). Is that the only reason why the Defiance is heavier, but costs the same?

 

[plzt]

The Vyper has a smaller, magnesium chassis and a slightly smaller battery which contributes

 

[jimbotymbo]

Hi Everyone, nice to be here!
I'm on a search for a new gaming laptop. I have a 5 year old Lenovo E550 with i5 and baseline dedicated GPU that can't run current games anymore (and didn't do a great job earlier with it either). Prior to that, between 2009 and 2015 I had a serious gaming laptop which was loud, heavy (4.5kg) and had 40min. idle battery life.
Wanting a PC that would run my games for a few more years, I decided to dive into the rabbit hole of customized chassis again and see what's on offer.
TBH, I'm not a heavy gamer and I mostly do management simulations or turn based strategy (last 2 games were CIV 6 and Tropico 6, both barely move on my current laptop). I don't have other heavy uses for the laptop. The only requirement that it would not look like a beast, as it sits on the dining table, and should be aesthetic, so my wife won't nag me to put it away when not in use. Therefore, my 15.6" requirement.

After looking at 10 brands (including ASUS, MSI, Lenovo) and about 25 different models, I narrowed it down to PCS as the brand, and the following 3 models:
Vyper III, Defiance VII and Recoil IV. The i7-10850H was the selling point for me (though I was eyeing the 4800H originally). I thought I'd be happy with a 1660Ti GPU, but it was a quick decision to opt for 2060 instead.

The configuration of the laptops is thus, the same: The 10850 and the 2060 with minimal RAM\SSD parts (I bring my own), with extra cooling paste and no Windows license.

The Vyper and Defiance end up at €1300 and the Recoil at €1500 (with the 240Hz screen instead of 144Hz with the others). My original budget was indeed around the €1300 and only the first 2 were real original candidates.
So after this long intro - here are my set of questions:
1) What is the selling point of each chassis, or the mortal difference between them? The Vyper is light, but why would the Defiance costs the same, despite being 300g heavier and from plastic?
Looking at the forums, I see owners of the Vyper complaining about various issues, mostly around battery life and temperatures. I saw similar complaints with the Vyper II.
I couldn't really find any review over the defiance VII. The Recoil was offered as an upgrade from the Vyper in one of the posts, so does the Recoil also have better heat management?

2) On to GPU: I thought about upgrading from 2060 to the 2070 (Vyper) or 2070MaxQ (Defiance), for a ~€150 bump. Again, will the Vyper stand the heat? If I go for recoil = no GPU upgrade. I know MaxQ is not the best upgrade vs the 2060, but can anyone comment how this fares with PCS laptops?

3) Do thicker laptops necessarily disperse heat better? In this case, the Optimus XI might also be an option

4) I never used a laptop cooling pad, and the wife wouldn't like another cable \ noise going on in the room. Will this be a dealbreaker?

I really appreciate your input in advance.
My finger is trigger happy, and I want to make sure I'm aiming at the right target!

I have had the Vyper 3 15.6 for approaching a month now. I might do a full-on review at some point - but main points are these:

- It's a very powerful laptop that does everything I want at a significant cost reduction to almost anything else out there; I'm now happy with the battery life and thermals.
- I say "now" because it did require some work to set up. A fair amount of undervolting to get heat under control, to start! Some parts - not the WASD, which remain cool, but particularly the part above the keyboard - are still very hot to the touch at full blast, but then it is a slim metal laptop with DTR equivalent parts in. Crucially, there is now almost no thermal throttling at heavy load, which is more than most out there. I am willing to bet you'd see similar challenges with the Defiance, given the form factor. Recoil might need less tuning, if you are lucky.
- The battery took a while to crack. An issue on these chassis seems to be that the dGPU uses power even in iGPU mode, which massively dents the battery life until you can crack keeping it off in hybrid mode. I also had to do quite a lot of work so I could reduce the screen to 60Hz when not gaming (which makes a difference). But once that was done, it sits comfortably around 4, 4.5 hours - which is really all I need, so I'm happy.
- There are also some silly little things like issues with the light bar - the wrong control centre was in my downloads, and again when support sent me a link for the wrong update, which meant the bar didn't work properly. It's fixed now (I found the updated control centre on the forums...), and I don't really care anyway, but it's another example of needing to do some work to get things right.
- The screen is really nice, very happy with that. Slightly annoyed it didn't support 60Hz out of the box and needed a little workaround, but otherwise no complaints. Small bezels make a huge difference to the experience and are definitely worth the trade-off of having the webcam beneath, rather than above the screen for me.
- If I know now what I knew then, I would probably on balance have got the Recoil - 50% bigger battery, expectation of better thermals (240Hz and mechanical keyboard not really considerations for me). But it is £150 more so I still think it is a toss-up, depending on your use case - e.g. for me weight and larger battery are more or less on a par as I carry it a lot but only between places I can charge.
- Hard to know about the Defiance until it gets reviews. Personally, I prefer having the 2070 Super Max P over the graphics options in the Defiance: the drop to a 2070 Max-q is big, and the incremental increase to the 2080 Max-q definitely doesn't warrant the price from what I've seen. But if the reviews are positive and that's not a factor for you, then the Defiance is worth consideration. Plus having the mini-Displayport in addition to Thunderbolt, as well as slight battery increase, is a nice bonus.

If you want reviews, look up "Eluktronics Max-15" for the Vyper; and the "Eluktronics Mech-15 G3" for the Recoil. Some really positive reviews on Youtube for these chassis. Different resellers, but the same basic model. But basically, it's very powerful, very slim and light, and the battery is basically fine for a gaming laptop. So I'm happy that it's pretty close to the best thing I could have bought for my use case at that price level. But be aware that it may not be spot on out of the box!

 

[plzt]

I have had the Vyper 3 15.6 for approaching a month now. I might do a full-on review at some point - but main points are these:

- It's a very powerful laptop that does everything I want at a significant cost reduction to almost anything else out there; I'm now happy with the battery life and thermals.
- I say "now" because it did require some work to set up. A fair amount of undervolting to get heat under control, to start! Some parts - not the WASD, which remain cool, but particularly the part above the keyboard - are still very hot to the touch at full blast, but then it is a slim metal laptop with DTR equivalent parts in. Crucially, there is now almost no thermal throttling at heavy load, which is more than most out there. I am willing to bet you'd see similar challenges with the Defiance, given the form factor. Recoil might need less tuning, if you are lucky.
- The battery took a while to crack. An issue on these chassis seems to be that the dGPU uses power even in iGPU mode, which massively dents the battery life until you can crack keeping it off in hybrid mode. I also had to do quite a lot of work so I could reduce the screen to 60Hz when not gaming (which makes a difference). But once that was done, it sits comfortably around 4, 4.5 hours - which is really all I need, so I'm happy.
- There are also some silly little things like issues with the light bar - the wrong control centre was in my downloads, and again when support sent me a link for the wrong update, which meant the bar didn't work properly. It's fixed now (I found the updated control centre on the forums...), and I don't really care anyway, but it's another example of needing to do some work to get things right.
- The screen is really nice, very happy with that. Slightly annoyed it didn't support 60Hz out of the box and needed a little workaround, but otherwise no complaints. Small bezels make a huge difference to the experience and are definitely worth the trade-off of having the webcam beneath, rather than above the screen for me.
- If I know now what I knew then, I would probably on balance have got the Recoil - 50% bigger battery, expectation of better thermals (240Hz and mechanical keyboard not really considerations for me). But it is £150 more so I still think it is a toss-up, depending on your use case - e.g. for me weight and larger battery are more or less on a par as I carry it a lot but only between places I can charge.
- Hard to know about the Defiance until it gets reviews. Personally, I prefer having the 2070 Super Max P over the graphics options in the Defiance: the drop to a 2070 Max-q is big, and the incremental increase to the 2080 Max-q definitely doesn't warrant the price from what I've seen. But if the reviews are positive and that's not a factor for you, then the Defiance is worth consideration. Plus having the mini-Displayport in addition to Thunderbolt, as well as slight battery increase, is a nice bonus.

If you want reviews, look up "Eluktronics Max-15" for the Vyper; and the "Eluktronics Mech-15 G3" for the Recoil. Some really positive reviews on Youtube for these chassis. Different resellers, but the same basic model. But basically, it's very powerful, very slim and light, and the battery is basically fine for a gaming laptop. So I'm happy that it's pretty close to the best thing I could have bought for my use case at that price level. But be aware that it may not be spot on out of the box!

This is fantastic thank you. Would you be able to write in detail about what you did? Having a guide would be incredibly helpful

 

[amdolev]

I have had the Vyper 3 15.6 for approaching a month now. I might do a full-on review at some point - but main points are these:

- It's a very powerful laptop that does everything I want at a significant cost reduction to almost anything else out there; I'm now happy with the battery life and thermals.
- I say "now" because it did require some work to set up. A fair amount of undervolting to get heat under control, to start! Some parts - not the WASD, which remain cool, but particularly the part above the keyboard - are still very hot to the touch at full blast, but then it is a slim metal laptop with DTR equivalent parts in. Crucially, there is now almost no thermal throttling at heavy load, which is more than most out there. I am willing to bet you'd see similar challenges with the Defiance, given the form factor. Recoil might need less tuning, if you are lucky.
- The battery took a while to crack. An issue on these chassis seems to be that the dGPU uses power even in iGPU mode, which massively dents the battery life until you can crack keeping it off in hybrid mode. I also had to do quite a lot of work so I could reduce the screen to 60Hz when not gaming (which makes a difference). But once that was done, it sits comfortably around 4, 4.5 hours - which is really all I need, so I'm happy.
- There are also some silly little things like issues with the light bar - the wrong control centre was in my downloads, and again when support sent me a link for the wrong update, which meant the bar didn't work properly. It's fixed now (I found the updated control centre on the forums...), and I don't really care anyway, but it's another example of needing to do some work to get things right.
- The screen is really nice, very happy with that. Slightly annoyed it didn't support 60Hz out of the box and needed a little workaround, but otherwise no complaints. Small bezels make a huge difference to the experience and are definitely worth the trade-off of having the webcam beneath, rather than above the screen for me.
- If I know now what I knew then, I would probably on balance have got the Recoil - 50% bigger battery, expectation of better thermals (240Hz and mechanical keyboard not really considerations for me). But it is £150 more so I still think it is a toss-up, depending on your use case - e.g. for me weight and larger battery are more or less on a par as I carry it a lot but only between places I can charge.
- Hard to know about the Defiance until it gets reviews. Personally, I prefer having the 2070 Super Max P over the graphics options in the Defiance: the drop to a 2070 Max-q is big, and the incremental increase to the 2080 Max-q definitely doesn't warrant the price from what I've seen. But if the reviews are positive and that's not a factor for you, then the Defiance is worth consideration. Plus having the mini-Displayport in addition to Thunderbolt, as well as slight battery increase, is a nice bonus.

If you want reviews, look up "Eluktronics Max-15" for the Vyper; and the "Eluktronics Mech-15 G3" for the Recoil. Some really positive reviews on Youtube for these chassis. Different resellers, but the same basic model. But basically, it's very powerful, very slim and light, and the battery is basically fine for a gaming laptop. So I'm happy that it's pretty close to the best thing I could have bought for my use case at that price level. But be aware that it may not be spot on out of the box!

This is excellent information. I followed your thread about this some days ago. I know we're talking about "the cheapest possible gaming laptop", but having these things not working out of the box is a bit baffling. No wonder every second review port I read here starts with "I really love this laptop, but I had to RMA it after a few days because of fan\temperature\throttling\keyboard issues". I'll revise my OP, since I prefer now to focus on temperature and quiet operation, on expanse of thickness of chassis or weight. 17.3" is also an option now.

Thanks again for the detailed post!
@lewisclark607 can you confirm if your recoil has the REFRESH GPU?

 

[SpyderTracks]

Is the Recoil still based on TongFang barebones?

Yes, it is, it's the TongFang GM5MP0W for the 2060 (refresh) version

 

[lewisclark607]

Mine has the rtx2070 super, any of these laptops you’ll need to tinker with to get the best out of them. Saying that I’ve had nothing to complain about with my recoil - it has totally met my expectations. For me the major selling point over the vyper was the mechanical keyboard and speakers.

 

[jimbotymbo]

This is fantastic thank you. Would you be able to write in detail about what you did? Having a guide would be incredibly helpful

You're welcome. I did quite a detailed post on battery in this thread:

Praise for my new Vyper III and open questions

Hi, I have already posted this in the German forum, but there seems to be little activity, so let's try again here: I've received my new laptop (my first from PCSpecialist) this week and must say that I am impressed. Very transparent and timely production process (only delivery was slow, but...

www.pcspecialist.co.uk

On screen refresh rates, I used an app called Custom Resolution Utility which allows you to create new refresh rates. Just make sure you copy all of the details across from the initial screen settings (it gets quite detailed) and only change the refresh rate when you create the new setting. And only go downwards - there's a risk if you try to overclock it. That's worth another 30mins to hour of battery.

Undervolting - there are a few good guides out there: just search XTU undervolting guide and it'll tell you what to do (that's all I did - I'm no expert!). Bascially just do it in 10mV increments (or less) and stresstest each time to see what is a stable level for your chip. Once it crashes, go back to the last stable setting and leave it there. For me, -120 is totally stable, but that is right on the edge (it will crash at -125). And every chip is different so don't just start there - you have to do it carefully or you can risk your computer getting stuck in a startup loop.

Hope that's useful.

 

[jimbotymbo]

This is excellent information. I followed your thread about this some days ago. I know we're talking about "the cheapest possible gaming laptop", but having these things not working out of the box is a bit baffling. No wonder every second review port I read here starts with "I really love this laptop, but I had to RMA it after a few days because of fan\temperature\throttling\keyboard issues". I'll revise my OP, since I prefer now to focus on temperature and quiet operation, on expanse of thickness of chassis or weight. 17.3" is also an option now.

Thanks again for the detailed post!
@lewisclark607 can you confirm if your recoil has the REFRESH GPU?

Haha I know what you mean - but it's not like every manufacturer's laptop is spot on right out of the box anyway. Everyone's been raving about the Asus G14 but there's loads of people out there who have issues with heat and the battery not living up to promises, etc. I am sure the Asus forums are full of similar posts... And for an established brand with these exact specs I'd have been paying more than £500 extra so I still think it's worth it, personally.

But back on topic - if you want something quiet and cool, would you consider looking beyond the thin and light ones you have above? You'd have better cooling in a chunkier chassis in general.

 

[plzt]

You're welcome. I did quite a detailed post on battery in this thread:

Praise for my new Vyper III and open questions

Hi, I have already posted this in the German forum, but there seems to be little activity, so let's try again here: I've received my new laptop (my first from PCSpecialist) this week and must say that I am impressed. Very transparent and timely production process (only delivery was slow, but...

www.pcspecialist.co.uk

On screen refresh rates, I used an app called Custom Resolution Utility which allows you to create new refresh rates. Just make sure you copy all of the details across from the initial screen settings (it gets quite detailed) and only change the refresh rate when you create the new setting. And only go downwards - there's a risk if you try to overclock it. That's worth another 30mins to hour of battery.

Undervolting - there are a few good guides out there: just search XTU undervolting guide and it'll tell you what to do (that's all I did - I'm no expert!). Bascially just do it in 10mV increments (or less) and stresstest each time to see what is a stable level for your chip. Once it crashes, go back to the last stable setting and leave it there. For me, -120 is totally stable, but that is right on the edge (it will crash at -125). And every chip is different so don't just start there - you have to do it carefully or you can risk your computer getting stuck in a startup loop.

Hope that's useful.

That's magic thank you. Not too worried about battery but I've heard great things about undervolting. I'll check it all out

 

[Greenman]

Yes, it is, it's the TongFang GM5MP0W for the 2060 (refresh) version

I'd recommend a Clevo based machine. I've had 2 from PC Spec before and they're still going. My Recoil from last year is being returned for a 3rd time. Suspected dead motherboard (Its died twice before)

Random shutdowns in between as well most recently, possibly temps being high. Have hit 99 during light gaming. When it works it's great but I regret not buying another Clevo. Didn't know what I was buying at the time though. And the power cable is a tad short.

 

[plzt]

I'd recommend a Clevo based machine. I've had 2 from PC Spec before and they're still going. My Recoil from last year is being returned for a 3rd time. Suspected dead motherboard (Its died twice before)

Random shutdowns in between as well most recently, possibly temps being high. Have hit 99 during light gaming. When it works it's great but I regret not buying another Clevo. Didn't know what I was buying at the time though. And the power cable is a tad short.

Which models are Clevo?

 

[amdolev]

I'd recommend a Clevo based machine. I've had 2 from PC Spec before and they're still going. My Recoil from last year is being returned for a 3rd time. Suspected dead motherboard (Its died twice before)

Random shutdowns in between as well most recently, possibly temps being high. Have hit 99 during light gaming. When it works it's great but I regret not buying another Clevo. Didn't know what I was buying at the time though. And the power cable is a tad short.

I had a Clevo between 2009 and 2015, which was an awesome machine, but it weighed like the moon, was very loud in idle, and had its other share of problems. The most annoying one was a dead battery, which would cost at the time €200 to replace.
Which of the chasis here is a clevo?

 

[Greenman]

I think the Defiance is a Clevo (An older one of mine was called that.) Hopefully someone else knows some more about the other.

 

[plzt]

I think the Defiance is a Clevo (An older one of mine was called that.) Hopefully someone else knows some more about the other.

Problem with the Defiance over the Vyper is the lower spec GPUs - you'd have to go to a 2080 Max Q to match and then the price is significantly higher

 

[Greenman]

Problem with the Defiance over the Vyper is the lower spec GPUs - you'd have to go to a 2080 Max Q to match and then the price is significantly higher

It's just that in my (Limited) experience, it'll last longer too. I'm lucky in that I bought the extended warranty. Dread to think how much a mobo repair would cost, now onto what'll be my 3rd. Of course you could buy a Recoil and have 0 issues.