New Intel i7 10th CPUs unable to undervolt/ underclock

L

Lemon_Haze

Gold Level Poster
Hey Guys,

I have just got bad news, I think intel 10th generation mobile CPUs will be limited without option to undervolt/ overclock.
'' They can no longer be undervolted as they will come with the plundervolt mitigation by default. ''
In any case, if you look at their undervolting results, you'll notice that although they attempt to undervolt, the undervolt is not applying.

Here is a reference link to a review translated, its actually good in depth review. https://translate.google.com/transl...el-core-i7-10875h-oraz-geforce-rtx-2080-super

Now I wonder, if this is true then I stick with my 9750H, also I wonder if there will be options for AMD with 4800/4900H with at least RTX 2070, because it looks like Intel paid again to OEM's companies not to use AMD :D or at least, no high end laptops now, with AMD cpu + high end graphic card, I just hope I am wrong and we will see Ryzen chips with high end graphics cards (RTX 2080) this year.

What do you think guys? I was also looking forward for new PB71 with rtx 2070 super and 108750H but I stick with my Vortex IX.
@SpyderTracks was right, 10th gen is even worst than 9th gen before, or even 8th generation I guess. Pretty shame on Intel.
 

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SpyderTracks

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
Lemon_Haze said:
Hey Guys,

I have just got bad news, I think intel 10th generation mobile CPUs will be limited without option to undervolt/ overclock.
'' They can no longer be undervolted as they will come with the plundervolt mitigation by default. ''
In any case, if you look at their undervolting results, you'll notice that although they attempt to undervolt, the undervolt is not applying.

Here is a reference link to a review translated, its actually good in depth review. https://translate.google.com/transl...el-core-i7-10875h-oraz-geforce-rtx-2080-super

Now I wonder, if this is true then I stick with my 9750H, also I wonder if there will be options for AMD with 4800/4900H with at least RTX 2070, because it looks like Intel paid again to OEM's companies not to use AMD :D or at least, no high end laptops now, with AMD cpu + high end graphic card, I just hope I am wrong and we will see Ryzen chips with high end graphics cards (RTX 2080) this year.

What do you think guys? I was also looking forward for new PB71 with rtx 2070 super and 108750H but I stick with my Vortex IX.
@SpyderTracks was right, 10th gen is even worst than 9th gen before, or even 8th generation I guess. Pretty shame on Intel.
Click to expand...
This is Intel's first attempt at mitigating the plundervolt attack and as per usual, it's not effective. It's completely disabling the feature rather than mitigating the attack, it's not addressing the issue at all. They basically need to go back to the drawing board and actually figure out a mitigation. Weather they will or not is another matter, we've been proven since the first mitigative roll outs that Intel have no method to bypass these flaws, and it will be down to OS coders and Motherboard vendors to write the protections at the expense of yet further performance reduction.

Mark my words though, this won't be the only instance of this kind of thing. I fully expect (based on security researchers around the world) that Intel's only method in the end of ACTUALLY protecting their CPU's will be to fully disable Hyperthreading which would leave all their chips (ESPECIALLY the 9900k and KS which are the only viable intel chips remaining) completely redundant as performance would drop off the charts.
 
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SpyderTracks

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
I suspect Intels deal with nVidia to keep the RTX2070 super and 2080 Super only on Intel platforms is only valid for the current Gen, as soon as the RTX 3000 cards are released, they'll be on AMD. nVidia know that Intel have lost the mobile space and they won't sacrifice an important revenue stream to support Intel, just wouldn't make sense.
 
L

Lemon_Haze

Gold Level Poster
SpyderTracks said:
This is Intel's first attempt at mitigating the plundervolt attack and as per usual, it's not effective. It's completely disabling the feature rather than mitigating the attack, it's not addressing the issue at all. They basically need to go back to the drawing board and actually figure out a mitigation. Weather they will or not is another matter, we've been proven since the first mitigative roll outs that Intel have no method to bypass these flaws, and it will be down to OS coders and Motherboard vendors to write the protections at the expense of yet further performance reduction.

Mark my words though, this won't be the only instance of this kind of thing. I fully expect (based on security researchers around the world) that Intel's only method in the end of ACTUALLY protecting their CPU's will be to fully disable Hyperthreading which would leave all their chips (ESPECIALLY the 9900k and KS which are the only viable intel chips remaining) completely redundant as performance would drop off the charts.

DON'T BUY INTEL, THEY ARE USELESS HOT PAPERWEIGHTS
Click to expand...

I think you are 100% right mate. If this will happen then that would be a graveyard for Intel which basically is already as they digging their own grave. Honestly, this is my last laptop with intel cpu, I wouldn't get anything from 10th gen even the i9 10th unlocked version that will be lava for the laptops for sure, the only thing how to cool those mercury chips will be using LM like asus does now. That will be only option to cool those lava chips. I just honestly hope that Intel did not paid OEMs again like they did last time because from what I can see all new clevo high end laptops will be using Intel. Nova is DTR so doesn't count.
 
L

Lemon_Haze

Gold Level Poster
SpyderTracks said:
I suspect Intels deal with nVidia to keep the RTX2070 super and 2080 Super only on Intel platforms is only valid for the current Gen, as soon as the RTX 3000 cards are released, they'll be on AMD. nVidia know that Intel have lost the mobile space and they won't sacrifice an important revenue stream to support Intel, just wouldn't make sense.
Click to expand...
Yep this could be very true, and very possible to happen. Now we just need all the SODIMM RAMs to get more support for AMD as well as they have been designed for Intel in mind and the memory coding for AMD have a very little support but this will change for sure in upcoming months.
 
SpyderTracks

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
Lemon_Haze said:
I think you are 100% right mate. If this will happen then that would be a graveyard for Intel which basically is already as they digging their own grave. Honestly, this is my last laptop with intel cpu, I wouldn't get anything from 10th gen even the i9 10th unlocked version that will be lava for the laptops for sure, the only thing how to cool those mercury chips will be using LM like asus does now. That will be only option to cool those lava chips. I just honestly hope that Intel did not paid OEMs again like they did last time because from what I can see all new clevo high end laptops will be using Intel. Nova is DTR so doesn't count.
Click to expand...
Clevo already has loads of high end AMD 4000 chassis.
 
L

Lemon_Haze

Gold Level Poster
SpyderTracks said:
Clevo already has loads of high end AMD 4000 chassis.
Click to expand...
Sorry I meant top high end like new refreshed from rtx 2070, 2080/ 2070, 2080 super, I think there wont be AMD 4000 laptops with higher graphic card than RTX 2060 this year but hopefully I am wrong. If I am, please correct me. Also what clevo has 4000 series what models?
 
SpyderTracks

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
Lemon_Haze said:
Also what clevo has 4000 series what models?
Click to expand...
They haven't been announced yet as they always announce at trade shows, at CES in January, the 4000 series hadn't been fully announced, and all trade shows afterwards have been cancelled. But they're definitely working on them, there's no way they'd miss out on them.
 
L

Lemon_Haze

Gold Level Poster
for anybody who doesn't know what plundervolt is: https://plundervolt.com/

I am honestly laughing calling this new gaming/ high end CPUs which you cannot even undervolt. It is shame that you buying a new laptop for example from a company like MSI designed for gaming and you have to spend days tweaking it so it just run as it should for the price, its a nonsense + this SGX now with intel man, its a amen, at least price should be reduced significantly. Definitely my next laptop/ pc will be AMD based.
Lads, consider and ask before buying. Don't spend money on filth.If you want intel, get 8750/ 9750H for cheaper. I am just waiting for benchmarks and actual tests from 10th gen how it will keep up with last year generation. Will be worse that's for sure
 
SpyderTracks

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
Lemon_Haze said:
for anybody who doesn't know what plundervolt is: https://plundervolt.com/

I am honestly laughing calling this new gaming/ high end CPUs which you cannot even undervolt. It is shame that you buying a new laptop for example from a company like MSI designed for gaming and you have to spend days tweaking it so it just run as it should for the price, its a nonsense + this SGX now with intel man, its a amen, at least price should be reduced significantly. Definitely my next laptop/ pc will be AMD based.
Lads, consider and ask before buying. Don't spend money on filth.If you want intel, get 8750/ 9750H for cheaper. I am just waiting for benchmarks and actual tests from 10th gen how it will keep up with last year generation. Will be worse that's for sure
Click to expand...
BTW, this isn't limited to 10th generation chips, this is all the way back to 6th generation, so the 8750 and 9760 and anything back to the 6000 series are affected also including Macs of course.

Software Guard Extensions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Pokkai

Pokkai

Active member
Are you guys on AMD's payroll?
Intel has been in trouble for a while now, and will be until at least 2022, next years refresh will likely be 14nm as well. The temps on your image are insane. I could cook dinner on these chips.
As much as people go on about AMD we need them both to be competitive.
Lisa Su deserves some real kudos for her work on team red. It's a shame they can't get near nVidia in the GPU space.
 
ubuysa

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
I hope that your 'are you guys on AMD' s payroll' was meant in jest?

Very few of us on here work for PCS and AFAIK none of the regular experts work for either AMD or Intel.

One important advantage of this site is that there is no possibility of posters being 'influenced' by either AMD nor Intel. What you get on here are very knowledgeable and experienced people who give open and unbiased opinions. That all the forum experts are saying the same thing should be a clear indication of the gulf between AMD and Intel in the CPU market at present.

I agree that we want them to be competitive, I'm sure all of us want that, but unless you have voting stock in Intel or other influence you can bring to bear, we just have to wait for them to catch up. [emoji846]
 
raypat

raypat

Active member
Yeah quite annoying to hear about this. Does anyone know if there are any other settings in Throttlestop we should be using with 10th gen? speedshift or anything?
 
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