New music production / gaming rig

[garamo]

Hey all, my old PC is having various issues with USB connectivity, and needing several attempts to get it to boot up. Guessing it's the motherboard (can't imagine PSU as it runs fine most of the time even in game or working on a big music project). I could just get a new motherboard and processor but it's probably all about 5 years old so thinking of just replacing.

I already have an MSI NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2070 SUPER VENTUS OC I can move across but will it fit the case!? My old case is a massive full tower so never a concern. Also have other drives I can put in for storage.

I'm also concerned about USB end points as I have some non standard USB devices that I believe use a lot, midi controllers, hardware synths, external audio interfaces etc (although other than my Rift S they don't need/benefit from USB3.0). It looks like the motherboard also has USB 2.0, is this right? If I can get as much as possible going through USB2.0 it would be helpful.

Case
FRACTAL DEFINE 7 BLACK QUIET MID-TOWER CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i9 Eight Core Processor i9-9900K (3.6GHz) 16MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® PRIME Z390-P: ATX, LGA1151, USB 3.1, SATA 6GBs
Memory (RAM)
32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3000MHz (4 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
INTEGRATED GRAPHICS ACCELERATOR (GPU)
1st Storage Drive
500GB Samsung 860 EVO 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (upto 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Power Supply
CORSAIR 750W TXm SERIES™ SEMI-MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Corsair H100x Hydro Series High Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 12 to 14 working days
Price: £1,379.00 including VAT and Delivery

 

[garamo]

As I'm kind of desperate to get the new system sorted I've gone ahead and ordered. I did tweak a couple of things, quiet fans on the cooler, second 1tb solid state drive even though I'm bringing some other drives in from my old PC, changed to 2 sticks of 16GB Ram as I read in a few places 2 sticks is better than 4 (despite not really being particularly noticeable in real world applications). Looking forward to getting it!

 

[Stephen M]

I would cancel the order and start again. The i9 is a poor CPU, runs far too hot and Intel are full of security problems. AMD are streets ahead at the moment.

What drives do you already have, for the OS and main software an NVMe m2 is the best option, the Samsungs are excellent.

Depending on what software you use, for music production it is worth dual-booting as the Linux Studio distros have a low latency kernel.

 

[garamo]

I would cancel the order and start again. The i9 is a poor CPU, runs far too hot and Intel are full of security problems. AMD are streets ahead at the moment.

What drives do you already have, for the OS and main software an NVMe m2 is the best option, the Samsungs are excellent.

Depending on what software you use, for music production it is worth dual-booting as the Linux Studio distros have a low latency kernel.

Thank you. Unfortunately though I have heard reports of incompatibility issues with the AMD processors in music production applications and for me that is very concerning and not something I really want to risk. I'm happy with the performance of the Samsung Evo's, I work with both VST heavy projects and sample heavy projects (which I'm sure would hit the drives hardest) and honestly I don't have any issues with the performance of my current system. It's only the USB and start-up issues that are making me go down the route of a new system really. A drive update is certainly something I might consider in the future though when I feel it would be necessary.

My main concern was if my GPU would fit the case but after a bit of research it doesn't seem to be an issue.

 

[garamo]

OK I took your call on the drive in the end as it didn't make a huge price different considering I'll have extra storage on it too. So here's what I have now:

Case	FRACTAL DEFINE 7 BLACK QUIET MID-TOWER CASE
Processor (CPU)	Intel® Core™ i9 Eight Core Processor i9-9900K (3.6GHz) 16MB Cache
Motherboard	ASUS® PRIME Z390-P: ATX, LGA1151, USB 3.1, SATA 6GBs
Memory (RAM)	32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3000MHz (2 x 16GB)
Graphics Card	INTEGRATED GRAPHICS ACCELERATOR (GPU)
1st Storage Drive	500GB Samsung 860 EVO 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (upto 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW) Change to: 1TB Samsung 860 QVO 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (upto 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
2nd Storage Drive	1TB Samsung 860 QVO 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (upto 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW) Change to: NONE
1st M.2 SSD Drive	NONE Change to: 1TB SAMSUNG 970 EVO PLUS M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3500MB/R, 3300MB/W)
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive	24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Power Supply	CORSAIR 750W TXm SERIES™ SEMI-MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable	1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling	Corsair H100x Hydro Cooler w/ PCS Ultra Quiet Fans
Thermal Paste	ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card	ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking	10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB/Thunderbolt Options	MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System	Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language	United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media	Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software	FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus	NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser	Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Warranty	3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery	STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time	Standard Build - Approximately 12 to 14 working days
Promotional Item	FREE Division 2: Ultimate Edition with select SAMSUNG SSDs!
Promotional Item	FREE SW: Jedi Fallen Order & More! w/ select Intel i7 & Above CPUs!
Welcome Book	PCSpecialist Welcome Book - United Kingdom & Republic of Ireland

 

[Stephen M]

I would be interested to know what the issues are with AMD and music production, I had not heard this and in all benchmarks they are streets ahead of Intel at the moment.

 

[Tony1044]

I would be interested to know what the issues are with AMD and music production, I had not heard this and in all benchmarks they are streets ahead of Intel at the moment.

Me too - I suspect it is likely out of date information.

 

[garamo]

Driver issues with certain hardware and issues running on low buffer settings from what I have heard. Perhaps it has been fixed, I don't know. Certainly feedback from this year though so it's not too old. Just not sure I want to risk it, and if it has been fixed now but later certain manufacturers are focusing on Intel first for new hardware, updates (whatever) and it falls over again in the future it would be a real pain.

Are you looking at benchmarks specific to DAWs and music production processes? I'd be interested to see these. Also notice that pc specialist only offer intel through the music production specific configurator (not that I need to use that of course). If I could be convinced otherwise I would consider it, brand does not concern me, just a sweet spot of performance and trouble free use!

 

[SpyderTracks]

Driver issues with certain hardware and issues running on low buffer settings from what I have heard. Perhaps it has been fixed, I don't know. Certainly feedback from this year though so it's not too old. Just not sure I want to risk it, and if it has been fixed now but later certain manufacturers are focusing on Intel first for new hardware, updates (whatever) and it falls over again in the future it would be a real pain.

Are you looking at benchmarks specific to DAWs and music production processes? I'd be interested to see these. Also notice that pc specialist only offer intel through the music production specific configurator (not that I need to use that of course). If I could be convinced otherwise I would consider it, brand does not concern me, just a sweet spot of performance and trouble free use!

That’s nothing to do with CPU’s but older generation motherboards with USB drivers. So long as you choose X570 there’s no issues as they use a different usb controller.

AMD is by far the better option for audio work as it has far higher IPC plus the extra cores.

 

[garamo]

I read something about memory speed needing to be tuned to sort out the latency issues and I know of people that have had issues with 3900 builds and compatibility running stuff. Which AMD processor would you recommend and why do you believe the issues have been resolved? I'm incredibly sceptical as rock solid compatibility/reliability are going to be as important as pure speeds. I know the i9 will perform well enough in terms of speed as my 5930 is still sufficient.

I'm not a fan boy and am not saying I know best 😂 I just can't afford to run into compatibility issues, latency problems etc. Any links to reports showing the better performance and that compatibility is resolved? What I have read hasn't filled me with confidence although it has been said issues are improving.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Have you got any links to what you’ve read? I think it’s a matter of clearing those up as I haven’t seen anything myself with latency issues

 

[Lemon_Haze]

if you wonder about amd go ahead with 9900k i would change cooler to h115i pro and you will be alright with temps about 60-70 in full load 9900k is still a beast and will perform better in most games as well, though amd config would make it cheaper however i understand your concerns, 9900k will still keep u up to date for at least next 5 years or so

 

[Scott]

I'm late to the party on this one. I echo the thoughts above... however... where are you currently at with this build?

I too would strongly advise an AMD build but if Intel is the way to go for you then we will be happy to advise around the system you choose

 

[garamo]

This is a pretty up to date article that covers the ram thing www.scanproaudio.info/tag/dawbench/. I know they got around this and ultimately testing did favour AMD but I really don't want to have to be worrying about that for a performance increase that I'm not likely to notice in my real world scenarios. It also mentions incompatibility issues and I'm aware of people first hand having issues with their hardware recently when changing to amd builds to try and take advantage of the speed improvement over Intel this gen. I don't believe the daw I use (FL studio) makes quite as good use of large numbers of cores vs reaper either although I'm not absolutely certain if that's still the case.

My order is still in processing but as I rely on having a system up and running and I'm concerned my mobo is about to give up the ghost I'm very keep for it to arrive asap. If I could be sure of not having to faf or not having compatibility issues I'd consider changing. If I do stick with the intel, should I go for the better cooler then, will this not be sufficient? After changing the drives and adding the m.2 I didn't get asked what I want windows on, should I contact pcs to tell them I want it on the m.2?

 

[SpyderTracks]

This is a pretty up to date article that covers the ram thing www.scanproaudio.info/tag/dawbench/. I know they got around this and ultimately testing did favour AMD but I really don't want to have to be worrying about that for a performance increase that I'm not likely to notice in my real world scenarios. It also mentions incompatibility issues and I'm aware of people first hand having issues with their hardware recently when changing to amd builds to try and take advantage of the speed improvement over Intel this gen. I don't believe the daw I use (FL studio) makes quite as good use of large numbers of cores vs reaper either although I'm not absolutely certain if that's still the case.

My order is still in processing but as I rely on having a system up and running and I'm concerned my mobo is about to give up the ghost I'm very keep for it to arrive asap. If I could be sure of not having to faf or not having compatibility issues I'd consider changing. If I do stick with the intel, should I go for the better cooler then, will this not be sufficient? After changing the drives and adding the m.2 I didn't get asked what I want windows on, should I contact pcs to tell them I want it on the m.2?

That article just confirms everything we’re saying, that AMD paired with 3600mhz ram blows intel out of the water in almost every audio benchmark both in performance and price.

It doesn’t mention any instability other than a performance gap of 7-15% if going for 3200mhz RAM over 3600mhz, but that’s expected.

I don’t see any mention of instability or incompatibility? If you’re referring to the issues of when Ryzen were first released, they were just down to it being a whole new architecture that needed OS optimisation, bit that’s all been done early last year, and the USB issue was on a different motherboard chipset, so there really are no issues at all, only benefits.

 

[garamo]

"The earlier concerns about a limited number of incompatibilities have so far not grown and we’re aware that AMD have been working hard to help smooth these out". I don't believe anyone here mentioned pairing with a particular ram speed either so I could have easily just switched to AMD and had real issues with latency.. I know it says limited number of incompatibilities but any incompatibility could completely cripple me. Obviously if more power is possible for the same price great but I know the 9900 is enough power so compatibility then becomes a priority and latency of my audio equipment is super important too of course.

What AMD CPU would people recommend? A 3900? PC specialist only seem to allow 2 X 8gb sticks of 3600 ram which isn't enough ram for me. Why do pc specialist not list an AMD option in their own professional audio pc section?

Lastly I apologise if I am coming across as an argumentative person. 😂 I'm not the best at getting my point across and it is absolutely not intended and I appreciate everyone's help. I have just a limited knowledge of pc hardware and am just very worried about buying something that will cause me a headache.