Octane series laptop: Is it a hot lemon?

[JLockwood]

I bought an octane series laptop from PCS in August 2018. As it stands at this moment in time i have owned the laptop for 433 days. Since taking delivery of the laptop it has been returned due to faults twice and is currently still with PCS.

From receiving the laptop i have had issues with it. Initially the first issue was terrible screen burn on the 4K panel, i lived with this for a while as the artifacts would fade of screen eventually. 5 months into owning this machine it started crashing. At first it was not often and i blamed it on the games i played, mainly because the developers are continuously releasing new versions which always come with issues.. Overtime the crashing got worse, it affected more and more games and i found myself having to de-clock the gpu to get any level of stability. Eventually i concluded that it was the machine and requested an RMA.
I reported the crashing issues and i also reported the screen burn.

PCS received the machine, eventually tested it and promptly changed the GPU and the screen. Great!

Well I got the machine back mid January. Coincidentally the 2 games i play the most changed to 64bit only at around the same time...

At first the machine seemed ok, the shutdown crash had gone, the screen no longer burned.. Great.. or was it..

immediately i noticed that the games would occasionally crash back to desktop, sometimes with the sound still playing. I initially put this down to the recent changes in the games i play.. You know what its like, they release a new version and we find the bugs. Well this continued. I eventually got fed up trying to play.. And thinking the issue was down to the game i felt it was out of my hands.. Over time i started to suspect the hardware again, the shutdown crash was back.. Not very often, but it was back.

I was reluctant to blame it on the hardware at first, how can it be going wrong again? new GPU? Cant have 2 go wrong in a row? Surely? But, alas it seemed the hardware was the issue. de clocking the gpu made the game stable-ish. Also playing on very low graphic settings helped. But still, it was the same. And, as before the issue got worse with time.

Now as i write this PCS still have the machine, they tell me that the GPU is overheating and that a re paste has fixed this.. Im finding it hard to believe.

i paid over £2000 for this machine with the thinking that it would last as a good and capable gaming machine for 3-5 years before needing to be upgraded or replaced. Now after owning it for just over a year im worried that it wont last 2. I am really starting to think that this series of Clevo made chassis has an inherent issue. All i find on the PCS forums and others who use clevo is overheat/crash/shutdown/issues/problems.

I really think i have bought a lemon and im concerned about owning this thing going forwards.. I have asked PCS for a credit because i have zero confidence in this machine.. If i do get the credit.. which is a long shot i will buy another machine from PCS.. Pc this time.. so i can fix it myself.

Does anybody else think there could be an inherent design flaw in the thermals on the clevo chassis? Possibly heat leading to failure? I do use the machine on a cooling stand..

Specs..
Chassis & DisplayOctane Series: 17.3" Matte 4K LED 60Hz 72% NTSC Widescreen (3840x2160) (No G-Sync)
Processor (CPU)Intel® Core™ i7 Six Core Processor i7-8700k (3.7GHz) 12MB CacheMemory
(RAM)16GB Corsair 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 16GB)
Graphics CardNVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1070 OC 1518 MHz - 8.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.11st
Storage Drive480GB KINGSTON UV500 2.5" SSD, SATA 6 Gb (520MB/R, 500MB/W)1st M.2 SSD DriveNONE

Change to: 250GB WD Black™ M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 3000MB/s R | 1600MB/s W)
Memory Card ReaderIntegrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
AC Adaptor1 x 330W AC AdaptorPower Cable1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
BatteryOctane Series 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (82WH)
Thermal PasteCOOLER MASTER MASTERGEL MAKER THERMAL COMPOUND
Sound CardIntel 2 Channel High Definition Audio + MIC/Headphone Jack
Bluetooth & WirelessGIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® AC-9260 M.2 (1.73Gbps, 802.11AC) +BT 5.0USB/Thunderbolt Options4 x USB 3.0 Ports + 2 x USB 3.1 Type C PortsKeyboard LanguageOCTANE SERIES BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD WITH NUMBER PADOperating SystemNO OPERATING SYSTEM REQUIREDOperating System LanguageUnited Kingdom - English LanguageWindows Recovery MediaNO RECOVERY MEDIA REQUIREDOffice SoftwareFREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)Anti-VirusNO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWAREBrowserMicrosoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)Notebook MouseINTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSEWebcamINTEGRATED 2.0 MP FULL HD WEBCAMWarranty3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)DeliverySTANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)Build TimeStandard Build - Approximately 3 to 5 working days

 

[Oussebon]

Had you been monitoring temps yourself?

 

[JLockwood]

Its always run hot..

We were getting temps of 86-90 degrees when the machine was at full load. Given the issues we have had with ours i wonder if the constant heat is causing components to fail prematurely? Sometimes the games would crash out seconds after starting them, i dont think that is temp related.. but PCS say otherwise. Its PCS that is telling me the problem is heat

PCS say now that the paste needed changing, and that was the cause of this round of crashing and RMAing... Funny though, as they only replaced the card in January and will have re applied the paste at that point.

My confidence in the longevity of our Octane series is non existent.

I write this on a 7 year old toshiba satellite.. this machine, even with its integrated cpu/gpu is more reliable and stable than our octane and has NEVER been returned.

In your opinions how long would you expect a £2000 gaming laptop to last? Am i wrong to expect 4/5 years?

 

[debiruman665]

The flaw is that the factory settings puts 120Watts on the CPU when its normally rated for 90W. This looks great for benchmarking but doesn't translate into real world performance as the thing will just thermal throttle itself into oblivion.

Try out the settings in my signature and you'll see a night and day difference

edit: oops didn't check that you didn't have the i9

perhaps what I said might not be applicable, but I would still reckon the culprit would be the power being applied to the CPU

 

[JLockwood]

The CPU has never been an issue. Our machine seems to be eating the GPU in a few months leading eventually to the machine crashing or crashing back to desktop.

I play stellaris, its not a graphically intense game.. But if played on high settings it would load and run for a min or 2 then bye bye.

The machine would happily render the fuzzy ring on furmark at 4k, for hours.. if you tried to stop and start the rendering it would crash, but yet it would not render heaven for more than a a min or so on any resolution.. It really did not like that one. After it twitching about it would normally crash out to desktop before you got to the galleon.

 

[debiruman665]

hmm, that is bizarre, I never found any instance of the GPU ever getting too hot on my own. I also play Stellaris and can agree it would hardly be pushing the envelope considering Stellaris can run easily on an iGPU.

this software here https://www.evga.com/precisionx1/

has an auto voltage curve detector that will stress test the GPU and then select a stable voltage for each frequency. I would not recommend installing this and testing it out until an admin chimes in and confirms that it doesn't breach the warranty condition of not overclocking the GPU, I'm pretty convinced modifying the voltage isn't overclocking since it doesn't actually change the clock speeds thought but I'd wait for official advice.

This tool "may" be able to autocorrect whatever factory setting does not agree with the hardware.

"may"

I suppose when something is already broken you don't have much to lose though.

See my profile pic for the official Clevo promotional image for the octane. This laptop is designed to run 'hot'. The sweet spot of 80C for the processor is a bit of a myth as the official intel spec has chips being able to run up to 100C. Of course, 80C is always going to be more ideal than 90C. I've never seen any official tests on the longevity of chips and the effect temperature has on them other than conjecture, common sense, and speculation.

GPUs do indeed require to run cooler and I can give my own subjective experience that the octane is more than capable of cooling the 2080 with no problems at all.

 

[JLockwood]

Yeh i know its bizarre..

the machine has always been flakey but not.. if you know what i mean? It wont play stellaris.. but will render a 4k fuzzy ring for hours.. It makes no sense..
I will say that this has been a progressive fault.. initially after it was returned last time it would play stellaris, happily. But overtime the issues get worse untill its unusable unless on the lowest settings with the GPU declocked as low as it will go.. Then its ok, ish.

Its because the issue gets worse overtime that has made me wonder if the heat is causing the issues.. Im at a loss as to what it could be.

Can you see why my confidence is dwindling?

 

[JLockwood]

PCS still have the machine and are now looking into a refund/credit because im concerned about owning this thing going forward. If i do get a refund/credit ill be giving it straight back to PCS and ordering another machine. Even though im annoyed that the machine is having issues im pleased with how PCS so far have dealt with it and i would happily based on their customer service buy another gaming rig from them. I think this time i will get a PC instead of a laptop.. Mainly so in the future i can repair/upgrade it without getting PCS involved.

Its all a shame but hey ho, onwards and upwards haha.

 

[JLockwood]

Update..

It would seem that it takes 14 days to decide on a refund according to PCS customer services..

 

[Oussebon]

14 days to decide whether to refund, you, or 14 days to give you your money back? The latter is relatively common, and is listed in the Ts&Cs

6.6

Once the cancelled Products are received by us, we will refund your debit or credit card or issue a cheque or bank transfer for the full amount paid within 14 days including the costs of delivery (except for the supplementary costs arising if you chose a type of delivery other than the least expensive type of standard delivery offered by us) less the collection charge we paid for the collection of the Goods if applicable.

6.12

For refunds, we will make the reimbursement without undue delay, and not later than: - 14 days after the day we receive back from you any goods supplied, or - (if earlier) 14 days after the day you provide evidence that you have returned the goods, or - if there were no goods supplied, 14 days after the day on which we are informed about your decision to cancel this contract.

And so forth


Edit: Oh wait, you had the laptop for over a year already? In which case it wouldn't be a straightforward refund where you return the goods shortly after sale. I suppose 14 days isn't entirely unreasonable for them to decide? Though ofc by now you just want to move forward.

 

[JLockwood]

We have requested a refund. They have said, verbally on the phone when i called to chase that it will take 14 days to decide. The machine is out of its warranty, but only by 40 days or so and its already been back to them once previously for the same thing. i guess it may take them longer to asses as its not a straight forward first 12 months thing.

Even if it takes 14 days its ok i guess, ive not been able to play games on it properly for the last few months.. so im not missing it as much as i did before.

In PCS defense i will say that we returned the machine initially as an RMA and decided based on their conclusions that we would prefer our money back. So im sure thats also probably complicated matters.

 

[JLockwood]

Well well.

We have had a response from PCS regarding our machine.. i copy and paste..

Good afternoon,



I work on behalf of the refunds team and I was just reaching out regarding your system, I have been asked to contact you following the correspondence you have had with us. Upon looking into this further into this request I am afraid to say that we are unable to offer a refund as this purchase has been deemed as a business to business purchase and as in line with our terms and conditions we are not able to honour a refund. What I would like to propose is that we make another attempt to get this system working the way it should be, if after which time the system arrives back with continued issues then we might be able to consider your request of changing you over to a desktop computer instead if you so wish however we will be unable to offer a refund at this time.



Best Wishes,

Andrew Kearney PCS Support Team Unit 12 Jubilee Way, Grange Moor, Wakefield, WF4 4TD Tel: 0333 011 7000 | Email: [email protected]

As you can see we have hit a brick wall..

PCS want us to take back the machine so it can go wrong again so they can hammer us on the value in the future.. Thats fairly poor.

They also want to deem this as a business to business transaction so they can deny me my consumer rights.. PCS t&c state the following;

6.2

If you are contracting as a Business / Trade customer, this clause does not apply. Any orders by or on behalf of a business cannot be cancelled once they have been placed. An order will be deemed to be a Business Order, if it is paid via business bank account or business debit / credit card, or a company address or purchase order number has been provided.

Ok PCS. so.. i paid for it with my own private current account, not my LTD company business account. I had the machine delivered to my home address, not my business address and i supplied no purchase order..
The only mistake i made was using my company email to hide the purchase from my partner whom i was buying it as a surprise lol.

A few days ago i would have been willing to accept a credit and respend the money with PCS, now i will never buy anything from them again. I think its fairly underhanded for PCS to hide behind B2B sale to dodge their responsibility! Anybody who reads these forums will know that the Octane series laptop are plagued with issues.

We have told PCS to not send the machine back, id rather argue with them for a year than have them dump this back on me so they can buy there way out of it cheaply in the future.

Now we have the unhappy task of building a case against them to get this sorted out.. BUY WITH CAUTION is my advice.

not impressed.

 

[neon989]

Hi.

Any such update on this? I'm looking at buying that model now reconsidering..?

 

[debiruman665]

Hi.

Any such update on this? I'm looking at buying that model now reconsidering..?

The laptop in question is an older version. The newer model is slightly more updated chassis

 

[neon989]

No worries thanks for the update. Alex

 

[Scott]

The laptop in question is an older version. The newer model is slightly more updated chassis

Are you sure about that? I would have thought the main chassis would be the same with a bios update to support the RTX cards.

The difference between the P775DM3-G (What I have) and the P775TM1-G (The latest model) is the motherboard.... as far as I am aware at least.

I know that I can pop in the P775TM1-G motherboard into my laptop and change out everything for a current setup if I was inclined (and had the money to burn )

That all being said.... the thermals in the modern setup are generally worse than before due to the heat the new CPUs put out. The OPs issue is most definitely unrelated to the design of the chassis, and more a "Hot lemon", as described.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Imho it’s not really the chassis at fault, the intel chips aren’t fit for mobile use. That goes for desktop chips or mobile chips. They need top end cooling to maintain normal performance and a laptop can’t provide that as of yet.

 

[debiruman665]

Are you sure about that? I would have thought the main chassis would be the same with a bios update to support the RTX cards.

The difference between the P775DM3-G (What I have) and the P775TM1-G (The latest model) is the motherboard.... as far as I am aware at least.

I know that I can pop in the P775TM1-G motherboard into my laptop and change out everything for a current setup if I was inclined (and had the money to burn )

That all being said.... the thermals in the modern setup are generally worse than before due to the heat the new CPUs put out. The OPs issue is most definitely unrelated to the design of the chassis, and more a "Hot lemon", as described.

Can't say for sure, I tried looking for the heatsinks on ebay for your model to compare but as far as I can tell the tm1-g is about 500g heavier. Not sure how much of that can be attributed to the gpu or how much extra copper is in the heatsink.

It is probably negligible. I think with such a high-end laptop the common sense thing would have been to have an aluminum case that could perform passive cooling alongside traditional cooling options. Does anyone do this?

 

[Scott]

Where are you getting the weights from? 500g is an obscene amount IMO.

 

[Deleted member 88683]

Regardless if you are B2B or not, if you are trying to go down the route of inherent/manufacturing faults instead then as the order is over the first 6 months you would be responsible for prooving that, what was the outcome in the end, you seem to have gone quiet, did you get a refund in the end? It would be nice to get a conclusion so we can see how pc specialist handle situations like this.