Octane VI review after 5 months of use.

[johnij]

- 17.3” 144Hz LED Widescreen (1920x1080) + G-Sync
- Intel Core i9-9900K
- NVIDIA RTX 2070
- 16 GB Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 2666MHz CL18
- 1TB Seagate Barracuda 2.5” HD (7,200rpm)
- 500 GB WD Black™ SN750 (3470 MB/s R - 2600 MB/s W)
- Gigabit LAN & Intel AC-9260 M.2 + BT 5.0
- Cooler Master Mastergel thermal paste
- 1x 330W AC adapter
- Windows 10 64bit

Build quality

It’s a fragile as a tank! The materials used are good quality and doesn’t look or feel cheap, chassis gaps line up nicely everywhere, it is put togehter well. There’s a few dark grey aluminium accents on it which are more than enough. I don’t need to have my laptop look like a polished alien spaceship with accent colors and blinking lights everywhere. There is little or no flex in the keyboard, to bad tho there’s only 3 zones of RGB. Keys are layed out spacious for my, rather big hands, and keys the are where they need to be. Exhausts vents are on the back and not on the side, i’ve had issues with that with certain laptops with side exhausts where my hands got really hot when using the mouse because of the heat pumping out.

CPU

9900K, Awesome! It performs well and stock scores are impressive. There is a big BUT and that’s thermals. Undervolting will do a LOT for temps and also tweaking the heck out of it with Throttlestop or XTU for example will get you way better performance. Thermals is holding this laptop back, but if you are into fiddling you can achieve a lot temps wise. If you’re happy with the stock performance, which is great, then stick to that because it is powerfull enough as it is. I’ve done some “it is a rainy day i am bored” tweaking and in Cinebench R15 for example i got it stable up to 2111 which is not bad at all. There is more in it but that just involves a bit more tweaking also I did get one-off 2152 but i don’t have a screenshot :/.

GPU

I have the RTX 2070 which is plenty for me, if i would have gone for the 2080 i bet i would have had even worse thermals, the 2080 boasts more power but it is a trade off. Compared to the stock PC version the 2070 has the same hardware but it is clocked a tad lower namely 1215 - 1440 (Boost) MHz compared to 1410 - 1620 (Boost) MHz. So performance wise we are talking about -14% base and -11% boost. But you can overclock it! My laptop scored 20349 points on Fire Strike which is a great score leaving all the Alienware people behind because it’s on 1st place for this test.

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/20846583

Display

144Hz, G-Sync, 1080p… I think it’s good, wish it was a bit more brighter tho on its highest setting. Response time are as expected, colors are vibrant and rich. There is a itsy bitsy teeny weeny bit of bleeding on the left and right of the panel but it is almost not visible.

Audio

Two Onkyo speakers, on top and one Onkyo subwoofer in the monster’s belly. Sound is surprisingly good imho. The top speakers are pointed upwards and towards you and thh 2.5W subwoofer produces a decent midrange of bass. There’s enough online to get more info about the sound specs or whatever. I’m fine with the sound it produces, it’s a laptop lets not forget that. I use headphones and with a good set of headphones you’re experience will be way better anyway from the excellent SABRE DAC.

Ports and touchpad

Plenty of ports, i don't use pad.

Noise

At normal workloads i don’t think it’s more annoying than any other performance laptop, it is at 40dB or lower on stock BIOS settings, on heavy workloads it can go up to 60-ish on stock BIOS settings.

BIOS

IT IS LOCKED!

There is nothing in the BIOS that makes me happy, when i got the laptop i expected to get a unlocked Prema kinda BIOS to tickle my senses but i was really dissapointed when i looked at it the first time i fired up the laptop. There is nothing in there other than PL1, PL2, ICCMax, multipliers and a custom memory profile. Where is the rest? Why is this? Don’t you think people who buy these really expensive laptops don’t want it? I mean i want it, and i bet every gamer or overclocker wants it. We want a custom BIOS of your own or a Prema BIOS. If multiple of your competitors can do it then you should it also. If someone has the money for a laptop that costs so much you should go the extra mile. That being said the memory overclock only works, for me, on 100x and not on 133x. Every 133x step above stock results in a black screen and it will never ever boot up again. I have tried every step but no go. Also the only way to get back into the BIOS is by using “Fn + D” while booting and/or F2 because F2 simply does not always work.

• Online support
  
  With this i mean the software i have on my account on the PCS .nl website. The latest version on there for any piece of software is the 9th of may 2019. The rest is from february 2019. I could go tot the “Built by Notepad” Clevo website and download from there but none of the latest downloads work. Blob not found for ANY of the servers EU/EU/ASIA.
  
  I am not going into the “if a driver/firmware you installed works you don’t need to update it” discussion. If a driver works doesn’t mean it can’t get any better or is secure. We know all know about vulnerabilities that have just recently been outed about Intel CPU’s and just this week NVIDIA drivers have been outed as compromised drivers. So let’s not kid ourselves by thinking that the drivers you think work don’t have vulnerabilities or work at it’s best because you never heard of vulnerabilities or cannot get any better, i don’t think those who think otherwise also do not update their phone when a new update comes out? I want the latest manufacturer software, the latest manufacturer BIOS version or whatever that is avalaible for my high-end very expensive laptop. And i can not get that anywhere other than from for example a repositiry of the Clevo and Sager owners section of Notebookreview???
  
  My current BIOS version is 1.07.20 (januari 2019), last version is 1.07.27 (september 2019). EC F/W version is 1.07.13 (january 2019) and the latest is 1.07.16 (april 2019). So my laptop is from may 2019 and it still has versions on it which are older then what was already avalable in may 2019. Also, no VBIOS available at all? I cannot get my head around that. There is no way i am going to download a BIOS update from somewhere trusting it to be worthy of flashing without the knowledge it’s not from PCS or the manufacturer itself. On top of that why has PCS or Clevo no “easier” way to update any firmware? Flashing my Omen takes no effort whatsoever. HP provides everything in one more “easy” installers, takes no effort whatsoever. I don’t even get a notice for new BIOS update from PCS but, again, other Clevo competitors do provide it. So why not PCS? And that is where it hurts. I did NOT like my Omen but the support from HP for things like that is/was excellent. Not only HP but MSI and Asus also provided well in that department when i owned their high end PC’s/laptops. It just comes down to this, when a manufacturer has the latest firmware/software or whatever for their products they need to make that available instead of having paying customers bought their product roaming forums to get the latest manufacturer firmware (unlocked) or manufacturer software, that is messed up. It is also my decision what to update when i want to updare it if is complaint with the manufacturer “rules” so it does not void warranty. But simply put, PCS does not have that available… At least not for me here in NL on my NL account.
  
  Every day use
  
  It is a BIG laptop weighing in at around 4,4kg’s. You can take it with you together with the 330W brick and needed peripherals but imho not for every day use because it’s just too heavy to lug around. You can use it powered by the battery while on the go but don’t get your hopes up to use it for more than a few hours doing light stuff because it is power hungry, give it a nice spot in your home and it will be happy sitting there plugged into the wall.
  
  PROS
  
  - Build quality of the laptop is great, better than i’ve seen on most high-end laptops
  - Powerfull desktop processor delevering great performance already at stock settings
  - 144Hz G-Sync panel gives great color representation and good brightness
  - Upgradable, you can replace anything in it if you want, CPU and GPU included
  - Individual configuration works great for me but is probably not available anymore for you now or in the future
  - RGB is present altough only divided into 3 zones of the keyboard
  - Good sound coming from the Onkyo speakers, but better with headphones coming from the SABRE DAC
  - I was lucky with my 9900K and 2070. They perform above expectations, lottery was good to me
  
  CONS
  
  - A locked meager BIOS for a laptop as expensive as this?
  - THERMALS! It can not get rid of the heat. But you can do things to get around that
  - Mine should have Cooler Master Mastergel but i don’t think it’s in there unless i open it up and check for it
  - It is thick, heavy, bulky. Pleasant to look at, unpleasant to haul around
  - It loves to be fed with high amounts of energy
  - The battery is not very usefull. Drains very quick but that is expected
  - Sometimes the fans just go ape using CCC even on fresh install of W10, solved it by using competitor software
  - The power plug at the back of the laptop concerns me, it is not sturdy enough. It has too much play
  - Memory overclocking at 133x does not work. Anybody care to explain this?
  - Stock BIOS settings will hold your laptop back from it’s true potential unless you got a real dud.
  - CCC needs an overhaul, every version (2,3 and 5) look like they’ve been created by a 4 y.o. with crayons

 

[johnij]

CONCLUSION:

Yes it does what it needs to do but i think i am going to sell it and buy one from a competitor that does not only provide better thermal solutions, a unlocked BIOS and support for manufacturer firmware & software. There are several competitors to choose from also keeping the Brexit in mind because this might change a few things when the UK is out of the EU.

It is a great laptop but for the mentioned things i feel let down by PCS which is a shame because they are easy to set straight for a company as large as PCS. (Brexit is obviously not their fault).

 

[SpyderTracks]

Great review, very detailed. I’ll just point out a few things:

You’re comparing off the shelf branded laptops to custom laptops when talking about BIOS updates and they are two entirely different things. PCS expressly say to contact them for any BIOS update and that updating it without their guidance will void the warranty.

And when you mention PremaMod, you are at liberty to install a PremaMod bios if you like but it will void your warranty. PremaMod is an open source custom BIOS, it’s available to anyone on any chassis they’ll support.

All driver updates need to be sourced direct from clevo at www.clevo.com.tw. If the downloads are failing, then contact PCS and they can notify clevo. PCS don’t update their hosted drivers.

What surprises me though is that you say you feel let down by PCS on these points, but you haven’t asked anyone on here regarding these points and it doesn’t sound like you’ve contacted PCS. Bit of an odd approach.

I’m like you though, I update everything as soon as an update is available. In my opinion, if you leave your drivers not updated and then start getting issues, it’s an absolute pain to troubleshoot as they’re all suspects. And that’s aside from the security issues on which I’m really anal about.

Shame you won’t be keeping it, I would say in the future, use the support tools available.

 

[johnij]

I already mentioned i want updates from the manufacturer (and PCS calls itself "manufacturer") but there aren't any i can download. Why do i need to ask PCS for a new BIOS from their hand if it is so easy to offer it to their customer on a simple support download page, also my BIOS is older than what was available in may as i stated above which i think is kinda weird? I cannot imagine PCS customers mailing them asking them for BIOS updates, but it seems thats the only way to get it? There are a lot of people not able to download from Clevo, that is why there is a repository made by Sager/Clevo owners on notebookreview or even Clevo Germany which also has a download for it's customers and non customers. Many have complained about this already, should be obvious by now. Clevo does not "push" updates with some kind of tool and i think they need to reconsider that because there's loads of people out there like you and me that want everything up to date. I am a mechanical engineer by trade, i need things to be up to scratch, engineered to suit its purpose, updated to its latest version. I am very anal about that also because that is what i do for a living.

I am aware of Prema, and again, i will not flash it because PCS does not offer it and it would indeed void warranty. Also, as i understand correctly, this board is not affiliated with PCS in any way and is sustained by volunteers. Why would i ask here if i want to get things done by PCS?

 

[SpyderTracks]

I already mentioned i want updates from the manufacturer (and PCS calls itself "manufacturer") but there aren't any i can download. Why do i need to ask PCS for a new BIOS from their hand if it is so easy to offer it to their customer on a simple support download page, also my BIOS is older than what was available in may as i stated above which i think is kinda weird? I cannot imagine PCS customers mailing them asking them for BIOS updates, but it seems thats the only way to get it? There are a lot of people not able to download from Clevo, that is why there is a repository made by Sager/Clevo owners on notebookreview or even Clevo Germany which also has a download for it's customers and non customers. Many have complained about this already, should be obvious by now. Clevo does not "push" updates with some kind of tool and i think they need to reconsider that because there's loads of people out there like you and me that want everything up to date. I am a mechanical engineer by trade, i need things to be up to scratch, engineered to suit its purpose, updated to its latest version. I am very anal about that also because that is what i do for a living.

I am aware of Prema, and again, i will not flash it because PCS does not offer it and it would indeed void warranty. Also, as i understand correctly, this board is not affiliated with PCS in any way and is sustained by volunteers. Why would i ask here if i want to get things done by PCS?

PCS aren't the manufacturer, they're a reseller, I realise it states manufacturer on their website, but it shouldn't really.

Clevo are the manufacturer.

When it comes to custom laptops, updating a BIOS is not the same experience as on a branded laptop, in fact it's about as different in every way from that experience. Think of the old pre-2000s BIOS jobs, it's a bit more like that, pre windows tools and flash backups. The chance of bricking the laptop is quite high if it's done incorrectly. So yes, you need to contact them directly and go through updates with their guidance.

This board is for support with PCS builds. Most of us on here have been on the forums being helped when we first bought, and have then learned and started helping out others, so we have quite a substantial wealth of experience on PCS support. You're right, we're not employed by PCS, but we've been on here troubleshooting these laptops for long enough to pick up a trick or two, and most of us work in the industry so have general knowledge on computing in various guises. Plus if we don't know it we can advise on how best to go about getting help from PCS.

Like I said, Prema is an open source BIOS, no one "offers" it, it's just a public resource, they may say it's ok to install it and not affect warranty, but that's not PCS's stance.

 

[johnij]

I’ve always been playing games since i was like, i think, 7 years old on every system/console you can imagine (bought or built by myself) when my dad bought us the Pong console in the 70’s. I am 48 now and i have had a LOT of PC’s and laptops and they where always specced for gaming. I know it's a whole different ball game when it comes to updating a BIOS for a system like this. And i don't mind that. I know my way around hardware and software. But for, may i say, less "skilled" people it's a accident waiting to happen. I do understand why PCS does not have it stand-by but they could offer something like an updater of sorts (which i also bought from a competitor which works great i might add, it does not update BIOS tho)

I also use this laptop for 3D modeling and bughunting for several early access/alpha/beta games built with the UE engine and for that speed matters and it does a great job at it even tho it needs 32GB or more. Also... i needed more than 10000 characters for my review! I had to shorten it considerably because it wouldn't allow me to post it.

I am currently working on a prototype for a special kind of notebook cooler which includes "indirect" liquid cooling. It's the size of a normal 17" air cooler but with a coolant, pump, reservoir, pipes, radiator(s), etc, etc... Still working out the kinks cuz i want it to be small in size but big in performance. Coolant does, of course, not come in contact with the laptop and it should not attract moist into the laptop itself, thats the hardest part . But it should lower temps a LOT lower then anything available now. I hope i have the stamina to finish it tho hehehe.

 

[SpyderTracks]

I’ve always been playing games since i was like, i think, 7 years old on every system/console you can imagine (bought or built by myself) when my dad bought us the Pong console in the 70’s. I am 48 now and i have had a LOT of PC’s and laptops and they where always specced for gaming. I know it's a whole different ball game when it comes to updating a BIOS for a system like this. And i don't mind that. I know my way around hardware and software. But for, may i say, less "skilled" people it's a accident waiting to happen. I do understand why PCS does not have it stand-by but they could offer something like an updater of sorts (which i also bought from a competitor which works great i might add, it does not update BIOS tho)

I also use this laptop for 3D modeling and bughunting for several early access/alpha/beta games built with the UE engine and for that speed matters and it does a great job at it even tho it needs 32GB or more. Also... i needed more than 10000 characters for my review! I had to shorten it considerably because it wouldn't allow me to post it.

I am currently working on a prototype for a special kind of notebook cooler which includes "indirect" liquid cooling. It's the size of a normal 17" air cooler but with a coolant, pump, reservoir, pipes, radiator(s), etc, etc... Still working out the kinks cuz i want it to be small in size but big in performance. Coolant does, of course, not come in contact with the laptop and it should not attract moist into the laptop itself, thats the hardest part . But it should lower temps a LOT lower then anything available now. I hope i have the stamina to finish it tho hehehe.

I came to the PC party quite late on, not until I was probably in my mid 20's.

My family had a commodore 64 when they came out and used to love gaming on that (when I could get the damn tapes to load!!!), then we had BBC Micro's at school, and loved a few games on that like Repton and Elite. The family got a general office pc back in about 95 on windows 95 and I used to fiddle about with it, but it sucked because it couldn't play games so I never really bothered with it that much. Instead I settled for the Playstation 1.

It wasn't really until I was living by myself in about 2001 that I bought my own first PC, still not gaming power, but used it for music creation and that was where my obsession started. Didn't really build a powerful enough PC for gaming until about 2005 and by then I was totally and utterly hooked on all things computer. The game that first completely blew me away was the original F.E.A.R... absolutely terrified me, it was mostly down to very clever sound, plus with some good fast fps action, just an awesome game, must actually have another playthrough sometime soon!

That project sounds really interesting. There was the ROG GX700 by Asus which attempted it but never really pulled it off, but it would be amazing if it could be achieved, and with the way Intels chips are going, that kind of thing will be almost essential to keep CPU's and chassis temperatures down to normal operational limits. I wish you a lot of luck on it! I think we all do

 

[Miasto]

Have you tried to repaste the thermal??

I have the same model you have and mine got thermal issues as well. I decided to repaste it and got at least 10-15 C lower temp.

And this is btw without changing any undervolt or what so ever.

And the bios update thing, I totally agree with you.

PCS should automatically update the driver right on the website for us who bought this laptop. Makes no sense to buy expensive laptop with locked and outdated BIOS.

 

[ubuysa]

You're review is detailed, well written and very useful. Thank you!

That said, you keep banging on about BIOS updates. Why? What is in the updated BIOS that you need?

It is a mistake of biblical proportions to view the BIOS as just another bit of software, because it's not. The BIOS is part of the hardware of the platform, that it's flashable is only so that necessary and important changes can be made without having to swap the chip itself (as we did in the dim and distant past). Unless you are having problems that you strongly suspect are BIOS related, or you need a new feature introduced in an updated BIOS (Spectre/Meltdown mitigation, for example) the BIOS should be left unchanged. Having an old BIOS that's doing its job is the very best outcome, because there you have well-tested and thus reliable firmware doing the job you need. It matters not a scrap if it's dated 2004 or earlier, if it's doing the job properly and fully then leave it alone. This (common) fixation on always having the most recent dated BIOS firmware is unwise in the extreme, the bottom line really is to only update if you have no alternative and you want to be dragged kicking and screaming to the update process too.

Laptops are notoriously difficult to cool, especially high-end and gaming laptops that have powerful (and hot running) CPUs and GPUs inside them. The chassis manufacturer (who actually produce the BIOS) understand well that allowing the end user to control overclocking aspects will likely generate more heat than the cooling system can deal with. I don't doubt that overclockers want these controls but they will be the first to complain when their expensive laptop dies of overheating after only a few months. TBH if you want a platform that you can overclock and/or tweak in other ways then a laptop is not for you and IMO it's unreasonable to expect it of a laptop.

That is the main reason why a laptop BIOS is locked down and it's why companies like PCS (and the chassis manufacturers) immediately void the warranty if you flash a non-standard BIOS. The locked BIOS is to stop you shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Oussebon]

If PCS had their own BIOS, as some other custom laptop sellers do indeed have, they would need to develop and support it. That involves staff time and cost, and the cost would be passed on to the customer through a higher price, most likely.

I checked an Octane config (17.3", 9900k, 1080p gsync, GTX 2070, 16gb 2666MHz RAM, 500gb 970 Evo) against a certain German company, PCS's offering was 250-400€ less expensive (depending which configurator of theirs I picked). With matched specs (as above but +1TB HDD and RTX 2080 because I couldn't see how to not buy those) PCS was £70 less versus a certain Uk company (£90 if you did the dead pixel guarantee, and I would have tbh).

There are of course other differences. Warranty terms will be different. The German store offered Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut as standard. And maybe the BIOS is a custom one on those 2 stores. I'm not familiar with custom BIOSes but if any 2 stores in Europe were offering them I'd have expected it to be those 2.

Prema BIOS /custom BIOS does come up periodically as a topic on the forums, but relatively infrequently. Perhaps PCS's own data suggests there isn't sufficient demand to make it worthwhile for them to offer it?

They do offer some add-on services, like extended warranties or installation + setup (though extra warranty is something they already have the contracts + facilities for so doesn't have much extra baseline costs for them). Perhaps if there's enough demand they might offer a custom BIOS as an extra for a given cost.

If they're only selling it to a fraction of the fraction of people who buy an Octane though, rather than making the entire Octane/PCS customer base pay for it, the cost per unit would likely be rather high. You could feed that back directly to them I guess.

Why do i need to ask PCS for a new BIOS from their hand if it is so easy to offer it to their customer on a simple support download page

I can't speak for PCS but my guess is that due to the risks of botching a BIOS update and the invalidation of the warranty, they find it best not to proactively offer those. It's an inconvenience for more savvy clients who understand the process and the risks, and know to only update the BIOS where there is a specific need, but it's a major safeguard for people who treat BIOS updates like express install game ready GPU driver updates.

 

[debiruman665]

CPU

9900K, Awesome! It performs well and stock scores are impressive. There is a big BUT and that’s thermals. Undervolting will do a LOT for temps and also tweaking the heck out of it with Throttlestop or XTU for example will get you way better performance. Thermals is holding this laptop back, but if you are into overclocking you can get way more out of it. If you’re happy with the stock performance, which is great, then stick to that because it is powerfull enough as it is. I’ve done some “it is a rainy day i am bored” tweaking and in Cinebench R15 for example i got it up to 2111 which is not bad at all. There is more in it but that just involves a bit more tweaking also I did get one-off 2152 but i don’t have a screenshot :/.
View attachment 14347

I think you won the lottery with that 9900k, I spent a lot of effort trying to peak my score and I only ever go around 1900. Care to share your settings?

 

[johnij]

I am not “banging on” about BIOS updates. I just want to know IF there are any updates and why PCS does not offer them. I want to know what is in this system, i am a paying customer who wants to know if things are up to date, out of date or, optimizable because there ARE updates out there which will do that for me. But who is going to tell me this? Isn’t it the manufacturers (PCS calls itself manufacturer even tho they resell) responsibilty to push updates because they are aware of important updates? Or is it Clevo’s? Who knows because PCS does not tell me or allow me to flash a different (updated) BIOS because that will void warranty, and Clevo doesn’t bother to have specific BIOS families updated with any kind of tool. And indeed people can wreck a system cuz of a update but i am confident enough about my skillset to say i am not one of them.

PCS does contact/use Clevo for updates to create and change their own custom BIOS versions which they ship out because the BIOS in my laptop IS NOT A CLEVO BIOS but PCS’s own BIOS called 1.07.20TPCS. This version number does not pair up with the Clevo BIOS versions. So… What IS in this machine then? Well i dug into it myself because who else is going to tell.

- My ME FW is 11.8.55.3510 is out of date and according to Intel this system is vulnerable.

The ME update is important regarding issues related to security vulnerabilities found in the Intel Management Engine Firmware, highly advised by Intel and Microsoft. You can check it yourself by using the Intel CSME Version Detection Tool. So which one in the list on https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000031784/technologies.html causes the vulnerabilities, i know its not fixed because the Intel tool warns me and Inspectre warns me.

- Spectre vulnerability was patched. That implementation comes from Clevo’s v1.07.20.
- Meltdown vulnerability is still there according to Inspectre.

- The ME FW version was updated in v1.07.24 but PCS only used the PL1 and PL2 change in the PCS BIOS. So maybe that is why Intel’s tool is telling me the 4 vulnerabilities aren’t fxied. Also why wouldn’t PCS update it to the newest FW if you have it available in your "factory".
- Stock PCS BIOS undervolt is set to -100mV. That implementation comes from Clevo’s v1.07.22.
- Stock PCS BIOS PL1 and PL2 are set to 120W & 165W. That implementation comes from Clevo’s v1.07.24.
- My Windows 10 is up to date for full awareness of both the Spectre and the Meltdown vulnerabilities.

The PCS BIOS is a mishmash of different Clevo BIOS versions, they’ve used different things from the ones up to v1.07.24 (released on the 2nd of may). I ordered mine the 20th of may but still the Intel ME FW is out of date (see date of v1.07.24). PCS has used the PL1 and PL2 of that version in their custom version but not the important ME FW update not to mention the regular E/C updates because mine is still at v1.07.13.

So yeah, i am questioning what i have in my laptop, so if you do not mind i will just ignore the remark about me "banging on" about my BIOS, i think i’ve made my point. And yes, I would like/want/need a PCS BIOS update to resolve security issues and whatnot and i am indeed going to contact them about my findings and ask about it because they don't contact me for it.

Also i have no issues with the thermals 😊, i said its a con (which means “on the negative side”) and it is not a problem for me, i never said i try to run it at 5+GHz all the time, it's at 4.7GHz max when i need it and when im just surfing for example its at 3.2GHz. I like to fiddle with it like we all do, nothing more nothing less 😊.

-------------------------

Clevo BIOS update 1.07.20 dated 2019-01-10:

- Microcode update for Spectre and L1TF vulnerabilities.
- PL1 set is to 100W and CPU undervolted to -100mV for entertainment mode.
- Tjmax was lowered to from 110℃ to 97℃ for the 9700k+RTX2080 and 9900K+RTX2080. Seemingly these were allowed to go to up 110℃ and as a results overheating and downclocking below 3.6 to 3.3GHz under heavy loads. ---> I hope people with those configs got the memo.

Clevo update 1.07.21 dated 2019-01-29:

- Update to tell the BIOS to accept OC GPU by default. ---> So the BIOS did not stick the GPU OC from CCC(?) by default it seems which indicates why this updates was probably done.
- E/C update.

Clevo update 1.07.22 dated 2019-02-22:

- CPU undervolt from -50mV to -100mV for 9900K. ---> Done for a reason, probably because of thermals.
- E/C update.

Clevo update 1.07.23 dated 2019-04-09:

- Microcode security update (moderate threat) for the Gen9 R0 CPU running Unix based software.
- PMU fix for suspend to disk state on Unix based system because because they would not go out of sleep state.
- Added support for a new panel by AUO (Chinese brand) .
- E/C update.

Clevo update 1.07.24 dated 2019-05-02:

- Microcode update for 4 security vulnerabilities.
- Update to set PL1 to 120W and PL2 to 165W for Gen9 revision R0 CPU's.
- Update for the Intel Management Engine Firmware to 11.8.65.3590 ---> That is because of those security vulnerabilities.

Clevo update 1.07.25 dated 2019-05-16:

- Fix for Coffee Lake S processors because CPU steppings are not being recognized by the BIOS.
- Added support for another AUO panel.

Clevo update 1.07.26 dated 2019-07-11:

- Microcode update for R0/S0 stepping processors because of security vulnerabilities. ---> Again a security update!
- RAID update.

Clevo update 1.07.27 dated 2019-07-11:

- RAID update.
- Support added for Intel H10 Optane memory.
- Some fix for the factory burn-in test which resulted in a kernel security failure.

 

[johnij]

I think you won the lottery with that 9900k, I spent a lot of effort trying to peak my score and I only ever go around 1900. Care to share your settings?

Sure, when i get around it i will post them .

 

[Oussebon]

so if you do not mind i will just ignore the remark about me banging on about my BIOS

Please do, though you did just mention it twice

 

[ubuysa]

I am not “banging on” about BIOS updates. I just want to know IF there are any updates and why PCS does not offer them if there is need to because i want to know what is in this system, i am a paying customer who wants to know if things are up to date, out of date or, optimizable because there ARE updates out there which will do that for me. But who is going to tell me this? Isn’t it the manufacturers (PCS calls itself manufacturer even tho they resell) responsibilty to push updates because they are aware of important updates? Or is it Clevo’s? Who knows because PCS does not tell me or allow me to flash a different (updated) BIOS because that will void warranty, and Clevo doesn’t bother to have specific BIOS families updated with any kind of tool. And indeed people can wreck a system cuz of a update but i am confident enough about my skillset to say i am not one of them.

PCS does contact/use Clevo for updates to create and change their own custom BIOS versions which they ship out because the BIOS in my laptop IS NOT A CLEVO BIOS but PCS’s own BIOS called 1.07.20TPCS. This version number does not pair up with the Clevo BIOS versions. So… What IS in this machine then? Well i dug into it myself because who else is going to tell.

- My ME FW is 11.8.55.3510 is out of date and according to Intel this system is vulnerable.

View attachment 14367

The ME update is important regarding issues related to security vulnerabilities found in the Intel Management Engine Firmware, highly advised by Intel and Microsoft. You can check it yourself by using the Intel CSME Version Detection Tool. So which one in the list on https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000031784/technologies.html causes the vulnerabilities, i know its not fixed because the Intel tool warns me and Inspectre warns me.

- Spectre vulnerability was patched. That implementation comes from Clevo’s v1.07.20.
- Meltdown vulnerability is still there according to Inspectre.

View attachment 14368

- The ME FW version was updated in v1.07.24 but PCS only used the PL1 and PL2 change in the PCS BIOS. So maybe that is why Intel’s tool is telling me the 4 vulnerabilities aren’t fxied. Also why wouldn’t PCS update it to the newest FW if you have it available in your "factory".
- Stock PCS BIOS undervolt is set to -100mV. That implementation comes from Clevo’s v1.07.22.
- Stock PCS BIOS PL1 and PL2 are set to 120W & 165W. That implementation comes from Clevo’s v1.07.24.
- My Windows 10 is up to date for full awareness of both the Spectre and the Meltdown vulnerabilities.

The PCS BIOS is a mishmash of different Clevo BIOS versions, they’ve used different things from the ones up to v1.07.24 (released on the 2nd of may). I ordered mine the 20th of may but still the Intel ME FW is out of date (see date of v1.07.24). PCS has used the PL1 and PL2 of that version in their custom version but not the important ME FW update not to mention the regular E/C updates because mine is still at v1.07.13.

So yeah, i am questioning what i have in my laptop, so if you do not mind i will just ignore the remark about me banging on about my BIOS, i think i’ve made my point. And yes, I would like/want/need a PCS BIOS update to resolve security issues and whatnot and i am indeed going to contact them about my findings and ask about it because they don't contact me for it.

Also i have no issues with the thermals 😊, i said its a con (which means “on the negative side”) and it is not a problem for me, i never said i try to run it at 5+GHz all the time, it's at 4.7GHz max when i need it and when im just surfing for example its at 3.2GHz. I like to fiddle with it like we all do, nothing more nothing less 😊.

-------------------------

Clevo BIOS update 1.07.20 dated 2019-01-10:

- Microcode update for Spectre and L1TF vulnerabilities.
- PL1 set is to 100W and CPU undervolted to -100mV for entertainment mode.
- Tjmax was lowered to from 110℃ to 97℃ for the 9700k+RTX2080 and 9900K+RTX2080. Seemingly these were allowed to go to up 110℃ and as a results overheating and downclocking below 3.6 to 3.3GHz under heavy loads. ---> I hope people with those configs got the memo.

Clevo update 1.07.21 dated 2019-01-29:

- Update to tell the BIOS to accept OC GPU by default. ---> So the BIOS did not stick the GPU OC from CCC(?) by default it seems which indicates why this updates was probably done.
- E/C update.

Clevo update 1.07.22 dated 2019-02-22:

- CPU undervolt from -50mV to -100mV for 9900K. ---> Done for a reason, probably because of thermals.
- E/C update.

Clevo update 1.07.23 dated 2019-04-09:

- Microcode security update (moderate threat) for the Gen9 R0 CPU running Unix based software.
- PMU fix for suspend to disk state on Unix based system because because they would not go out of sleep state.
- Added support for a new panel by AUO (Chinese brand) .
- E/C update.

Clevo update 1.07.24 dated 2019-05-02:

- Microcode update for 4 security vulnerabilities.
- Update to set PL1 to 120W and PL2 to 165W for Gen9 revision R0 CPU's.
- Update for the Intel Management Engine Firmware to 11.8.65.3590 ---> That is because of those security vulnerabilities.

Clevo update 1.07.25 dated 2019-05-16:

- Fix for Coffee Lake S processors because CPU steppings are not being recognized by the BIOS.
- Added support for another AUO panel.

Clevo update 1.07.26 dated 2019-07-11:

- Microcode update for R0/S0 stepping processors because of security vulnerabilities. ---> Again a security update!
- RAID update.

Clevo update 1.07.27 dated 2019-07-11:

- RAID update.
- Support added for Intel H10 Optane memory.
- Some fix for the factory burn-in test which resulted in a kernel security failure.

Wow. If that's not 'banging on' about the BIOS I don't know what is!

You complained in the post I responded to that the BIOS was locked. I have explained at some length why that is so in a laptop (cooling). You also complained that the 'stock BIOS settings will hold your laptop back from it's true potential' and I've explained why that is too (also cooling).

Cooling is everything in a laptop, a laptop is a big compromise so you cannot expect the same performance nor the same level of control you would get in a desktop. Quite why you felt that my responses to your complaints required the rant you posted here is beyond me, but it takes all sorts.

PCS have made their position on BIOS updates very clear in this post https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/threads/bios-updates.58007/ so if you're at all concerned then call PCS and ask.

 

[johnij]

First off: A rant is "to write or shout in a loud, uncontrolled, or angry way, often saying confused or silly things". There is not one angry word in my posts neither was i uncontrolled, "shouted" at anybody or was verbally abusive in any way.

I don't really know why you take it personally because i never mentioned you, what i said was that i am not "banging on" about it and from there and spent a large post proving the BIOS is a jumble. I just wanted information which i cannot get here so i took the time to dig into it and provided valuable information for any Octane VI user about what i found and that was a outdated vulnerable custom PCS BIOS in a 5 month old expensive laptop which has been put together by using different outdated and unsecure Clevo versions.

PCS and their BIOS updates... I have already read that post. The BIOS in this laptop does NOT come from Clevo, It is a BIOS made by PCS, and i keep repeating it, from different old/outdated Clevo BIOS versions all molded into one still outdated version.

PCS probably started at v1.07.18 because thats the first one that supports RTX in this chassis and still it's not up to par with the manufacturers own version because they just leave stuff out or don't bother to put it in which are important. But who cares about security, EC, or ME updates right. Of course i am concerned, they sold me outdated stuff and they will get a nice mail soon.

Secondly: i did not complain but i expressed dissapointment, those are two totally different things.

Thirdly: The laptop is for a fact held back by it's stock BIOS settings. If you are savvy enough to understand how to use Throttlestop/XTU you can get more out of the laptop WITHOUT raising temperatures and l have stated that quite clearly but you keep going on about laptop physical cooling. Of course the small form factor of a laptop does not dissipate heat effeciently, that is a rule of thumb and everybody who owns a laptop knows that, you don't need to convince me about it. I never said i want the same performance or cooling a desktop can deliver. What i did say is that you can keep the laptop cooler (with it's current physical cooling limits) just by tweaking it with XTU or Throttlestop and it is a fact that this works. Because of the settings this laptop suffers from unnecessary overheating and throtteling due to the "stock" PCS BIOS.

Anyway, thanks for the awesome support, i will be moving onto better things. @ubuysa the "it takes all sorts", that was really nice of you, shows real character...

 

[debiruman665]

First off: A rant is "to write or shout in a loud, uncontrolled, or angry way, often saying confused or silly things". There is not one angry word in my posts neither was i uncontrolled, "shouted" at anybody or was verbally abusive in any way.

I don't really know why you take it personally because i never mentioned you, what i said was that i am not "banging on" about it and from there and spent a large post proving the BIOS is a jumble. I just wanted information which i cannot get here so i took the time to dig into it and provided valuable information for any Octane VI user about what i found and that was a outdated vulnerable custom PCS BIOS in a 5 month old expensive laptop which has been put together by using different outdated and unsecure Clevo versions.

PCS and their BIOS updates... I have already read that post. The BIOS does not come from Clevo, PCS makes their custom one from, i keep repeating it, different Clevo versions. PCS probably started at v1.07.18 because thats the first one that supports RTX in this chassis and still it's not up to par with the manufacturers own version because they just leave stuff out or don't bother to put it in which are important. But who cares about security, EC, or ME updates right. Of course i am concerned, they sold me outdated stuff and they will get a nice mail soon.

Secondly: i did not complain but i expressed dissapointment, those are two totally different things.

Thirdly: The laptop is for a fact held back by it's stock BIOS settings. If you are savvy enough to understand how to use Throttlestop/XTU you can get more out of the laptop WITHOUT raising temperatures and l have stated that quite clearly but you keep going on about laptop physical cooling. Of course the small form factor of a laptop does not dissipate heat effeciently, that is a rule of thumb and everybody who owns a laptop knows that, you don't need to convince me about it. I never said i want the same performance or cooling a desktop can deliver. What i did say is that you can keep the laptop cooler (with it's current physical cooling limits) just by tweaking it with XTU or Throttlestop and it is a fact that this works. Because of the settings this laptop suffers from unnecessary overheating and throtteling due to the "stock" PCS BIOS.

Anway, thanks for the support, i will be moving on. @ubuysa the "it takes all sorts", that was really nice of you...

I'm interested to see what you've done, my current setup is to get the laptop to be quiet at all times during normal use. I'd still be interested in a power setup