PC Specialist Warranty issue / query!

[Tinhead10]

Hi just wondering if anyone else has had the same issue! Not very computer savvy but learning now! Computer just started powering off and rebooting even just while sitting idle for no reason. They ran remote tests and first suggested an new power supply which I took on to fit myself. That made no difference so then other tests performed which showed CPU temperatures were spiking. So it went back for repair. They fitted an new bigger fan which even to my untrained eye did not seem to be solving the problem. It was returned unfortunately with a bashed in case but also as it turns out the same issue. I ran a stress / graphics test or something which showed temps getting up to 105 which I now know is not good, and I was back to rebooting again.

Returned to them again at which time they confirmed that I was right and the CPU was faulty. Problem was they could not get a new exact same CPU. What they wanted to offer me was one with only a 3 month warranty which I can only take to be second hand or refurbished or something! Wanted quite rightly a new one with a full warranty given the problems with this one. They also told me they don't last as long as they are overclocked but I had never seen any mention of that fact anywhere.

This has been ongoing now for months (pc still with them) some of which has been my fault with being ill! They have offered a new recently released CPU in its place. Just by chance I thought of running a comparison on userbenchmark. Its then that I found that the new suggested CPU comes no where near the scores of that already fitted. For you that know or can check out I had the i9 7900x which is described in the test as a aircraft carrier with a score of 88 for gaming! The suggested replacement is a i9 10920x which only has a gaming score of 75 and described as only a battleship.

The warranty says "will be repaired or replaced with an item of an equal or better performance and equal or better value". Here I am being offered a lesser spec and lesser value. Check out the attached! Has any else had this level of service? I am without the computer for 2 1/2 months and they do not want to budge to the next CPU which only just pips my current CPU in performance but then again it is more expensive!

Who knows about this stuff and can offer some advise please. Not a very happy and a very ill customer who was just hoping to get this back for Christmas!

 

[SpyderTracks]

Firstly, don’t use userbenchmark, or cpubenchmark or any of those comparison sites it’s nonsense numbers that have no sense in real world performance, best avoided at all costs.

Neither of those chips are gaming chips, they’re HEDT chips so gaming performance won’t be optimal, but the 10920 is far superior to the 7900x as it’s got a much higher IPC (instructions per clock). The 10920 is 12 core 24 thread And has a higher boost clock of 4.6 vs 4.3, the 7900 is a 10 core 20 thread.

As I said though, neither chip is designed for gaming.

 

[Tinhead10]

Thanks for that reply which of course means nothing to me but appears to be a very knowledgeable answer. Much appreciated. Strange that I got it as a high end gaming machine over clocked by pc specialist. Look like they could do with you on the payroll!

Can I just check in lay mans terms that the suggested cpu will be just as good if not better (despite it not being a gaming chip) again to be over clocked by pc specialist. What test or comparison sites would you use to get any clue as a lay man as to what is better or worse? It looks like I am just taking pot luck by picking a pc described as high end gaming! I know about building but know little or nothing about pcs until they go wrong! Again much appreciated.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Thanks for that reply which of course means nothing to me but appears to be a very knowledgeable answer. Much appreciated. Strange that I got it as a high end gaming machine over clocked by pc specialist. Look like they could do with you on the payroll!

Can I just check in lay mans terms that the suggested cpu will be just as good if not better (despite it not being a gaming chip) again to be over clocked by pc specialist. What test or comparison sites would you use to get any clue as a lay man as to what is better or worse? It looks like I am just taking pot luck by picking a pc described as high end gaming! I know about building but know little or nothing about pcs until they go wrong! Again much appreciated.

If I were you, I would see if you can return the build and get your money back and then come on the forums for advice, your build isn’t suited for gaming, it’s needlessly expensive and will perform worse than one half the price. Given the issues you’ve had I’m sure PCS will consider a refund.

The configurator you were in isn’t labelled as gaming but as Core i7/i9 extreme computers. They’re called HEDT (High End Desktops) designed for multi core workloads like heavy rendering or media output. They’re not suitable for gaming.

 

[Oussebon]

What is the full spec of the system (copied from your order page), what did it cost, and when did you purchase it? (the month and year, anyway).

 

[Tinhead10]

Got it only last year and it was having problems after a few months only I was not really aware (fans cycling up and down) which tech tried to fix with bios update until it started powering down. This pc came as a replacement for a previous failed PC specialist computer. PC specialist found it was an uneconomic repair and the added insurance replaced it (not warranty). VERY just rang me to pick the replacement which was on their site £2750 or around that. The other guy saying this is not really a gaming PC! Thanks for taking a look at this as I really have not a clue. This has caused me to spend hours on youtube and elsewhere trying to get this sorted!

appreciate it!

 

[Tinhead10]

Hi Franceso

Francesco has reached out from PC specialist to try and resolve this issue. Thank You!

The new replacement CPU you are suggesting / providing (with a 12 month warranty) is being done so under the 1 years parts and labour.
The same CPU cannot unfortunately be got new or would only come with a 3 month warranty! I have been advised by PC S that overclocked CPU's do not last as long! So I am particularly worried about anything with a lesser warranty!

If you can confirm that the replacement cpu (whilst being considerable cheaper) is equivalent and will perform the same or better as per your warranty then I accept your offer. Your warranty states "goods found by us to be defective during the warranty period will be repaired or replaced with an item of an equal or better performance and equal or better value"

I am not sure to my un tech mind that they are equivalent. I equate more expensive to being better!

I only have the results of the original rig tests on userbenchmark as my guide. Some people don't appear to rate them but for me it will what were the numbers before and after your replacement. You have the unit as was so feel free to run the exact same tests and post the results so that I and all others can see that you have complied with the warranty conditions. The technical gobbly goog isn't going to do it for me but the results will confirm and sell me on your replacement. Can we get this done today please as this has been ongoing for months and both I and the kids would like something to play with over Christmas!

Phone me and I can pay you the extra to put this in the new case!

R

egards

Paul

 

[Oussebon]

1) Userbenchmark & automated comparison sites like GPUboss, CPUboss, Game Debate etc are garbage as above.

If these are ever correct, it's only like a broken clock being right twice a day is.

Even the price for the 10920x is ridiculous. It's a good £700, not 570. I just checked and it's because it found the part on an American store for $750 and translated that to £570. American prices don't include VAT, so add ~20% to the 570 and you're already at almost £700. Plus American hardware is often a little cheaper too, or at least was before the Trump tariffs. If you see a price in USD you can often assume a 1:1 ratio to the price in GBP. If you spend time on UK tech sites it doesn't take long to hear about the so-called "1:1 exchange rate" concerning consumer tech / PC parts.

2) The suggested CPU replacement is a better CPU than your existing one. It has 2 more cores, and faster frequencies. PCS can certainly say they are living up to the promise of offering an equal or better part if they can't source the original one. If your uses actually harnessed that power it would be a very nice upgrade. You wouldn't see much performance difference in most gaming, but it's still a much better CPU.

3) Also relating to the pricing, Intel recently cut the prices of its HEDT CPUs (the 7900x and all its many brothers and sisters) in half. Essentially because AMD released Zen 2 CPUs that outcompeted Intel to a ridiculous degree. It is likely Intel could always have sold these CPUs for about half the price, but just didn't have any real incentive to do so until AMD released things like the R9 3900x and R9 3950x.

This is why the i9 10920x is both faster and cheaper than the i9 7900x

Intel product specifications

Intel® product specifications, features and compatibility quick reference guide and code name decoder. Compare products including processors, desktop boards, server products and networking products.

ark.intel.com

It has more cores, higher frequencies across the board, more L3 cache... it's a more powerful CPU. And the MSRP is ~$300 (read £300) lower.

NB: we can compare things like frequencies for these CPUs as they are built on essentially the same architecture - but it doesn't work like that across all CPUs as you probably know.

4) @SpyderTracks is of course right that the i9 7900x is not optimal for gaming (neither are any of the HEDT CPUs) because you can get CPUs that are a bit better for gaming for a lower price. These CPUs are a different class of CPU and are available on different families of motherboards.

Nevertheless, the 7900x and the 10920x should 'do' gaming fine. I wouldn't recommend anyone actually buy one just for gaming, but it will still run games, and do so capably.

5)

VERY just rang me to pick the replacement which was on their site £2750 or around that.

The price is the standout bit for me. When you got your replacement (and if your original one was also worth about that much money) there'd have been no point spending that much cash just for gaming. £2000-£2250 maybe tops. For an i7 8700k + GTX 1080 ti sort of thing.

Spending more than that will tend to lead people to buying the more expensive HEDT CPUs like the 7900x which aren't really what they're looking for. Unless they're streamers, content creators etc as well of course.

So:
- You didn't buy the best value or best performing CPU / CPU family, but what you got will still do the job
- The i9 10920x PCS offer is a significant upgrade, despite being lower priced than the £1000 7900x.
- Userbenchmark is garbage

 

[Tinhead10]

Man! That is an incredible reply! I have never used a forum before (only a bit of Facebook) and this was only because I thought I was being short changed! The amount of knowledge here is incredible but each to there own. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond in such detail.

I am gutted that having been offered the replacement PC that I just went for the most expensive one classified as gaming on the Very website! There are machines on there (I just looked just now) from PC S which are classed as gaming but from what you say are not the best choice.

I need to look here next time if there is one for recommendations.

Thanks again!

Christmas is coming!

 

[Monarch]

Hello,

You caught me on my way home at 4! But I understand this has been ongoing so I'm happy to stay a little to provide my views. While I was not expecting the today or bust condition when I offered to discuss it on the forums a couple of hours ago, I know this has been going on a good while and want you to have confidence that when you get the system back you are getting the most potential out of your initial purchase.

Just to clarify for those who have contributed already - this system was sold through Very who are responsible for the way they advertise the system and sales advice their staff give. I don't feel there is any wrong doing on Very's part however, I can explain below. . .

I would like to just address the points highlighted a little earlier in this forum - the suitability of a 7900X for gaming (or successors). I would agree that the 7900X is not designed for gaming... I feel it is designed for everything! Spydertracks raised a good point about there being cheaper alternatives on lower end platforms but, that is not the platform this customer has bought into - they are with the X299 platform so the offerings for our replacement are there.

An important point is that we have had some market shifts since the 7900X was offered on the market. At the time the 7900X was released people were advocating the 7700K was the best of the best processor. With the way the market has shifted, many agree that 4 cores is simply not enough and will hold a machine back, in the context of a 7900X or a 7700K at the time, the 7900X is going to have a lot more life in it due to having more than 4 cores and cores becoming more and more important (now that consumers like yourself have access to machines with more cores more easily).

Take this analysis from GamerNexus, often looked at one of the most in depth and impartial computer reviewer and pundit. In their testing at the time of release, they show the 7900X just behind, on par or better than the 7700K (at the time the best gaming focused chip for the money). Taking into account how the 7700K has matured due to the number of cores, I feel the 7900X is the better option moving forwards.

Intel i9-7900X Review: Game Streaming, VR, Production, Overclocking

Today, we're reviewing the Intel Core i9-7900X Skylake X CPU, benchmarking it in game streaming (Twitch, YouTube) vs. Ryzen, in Blender & Premiere rendering, VR gaming, and standard gaming. - P6: i9-7900X Gaming Benchmarks & Conclusion

www.gamersnexus.net

In addressing suitability of an x299 (7900X) system purchased at a time when the market was different, I hope this suffices, your platform has and will continue to mature well. An option for a different platform is not being offered due to the rest of your system still being fine to my understanding (case not included due to the bump it took on the road). With the 1080Ti in the system, I believe this goes to show that the machine had the best gaming treatment considering the platform it was based on at the time.

To address Tinhead 10 directly, I apologise, but I am not prepared to use Userbenchmark to prove a point about performance. This website and similar are something we have strongly advised against in my time here (despite my post count, see account age). I would not want to give false advice and I (along with many in the community who understand these things after decades of experience) am not prepared to use the numbers this website shows to prove a point, it would be unethical for me to do so. In this case, it is not about favouritism in the community about which tests to use, there is evidence to support the argument that their scores are not a good faith representation of performance between products due to how they capture and report the information. I fully believe that when you get the system the processor performance observed would be as good or better in gaming scenarios.

The reason the price on the new chip is much less is not due to it being a lesser performing part, as others have highlighted here, it has more cores, slightly better IPC due to generational growth and better frequency performance than the one you originally bought. The differences in price are due to general market forces over time, with technology, if you arent getting the same performance or better a year later, then technology isn't moving on!

amd causes intel to slash prices - Google Search

www.google.co.uk

When you consider news reporting like this, it is not because the processor is any worse, it is due to healthy market competition, consider that if there was not this recent competition and Intel were not slashing prices to compete the processor you are receiving would be more expensive than the one we have provided.

While on a theoretical level overclocking may reduce lifespan of a processor. I have been overclocking since 2004 and have never seen a direct impact to product life in my care or the overclocking of others that wasn't caused by lack of knowledge, attention or care when overclocking. A processor can fail at any time, just as a Ferrari can break down at any time, it doesn't have to break down on the track! It can break down on a shopping run! In the many conversations I have engaged over the years I have not seen a probably metric to say "overclocking by X amount takes X number of years off the life of the product". Its not a metric that can be simply predicted or correlated. This is my experience but it has been backed up with years of hands on time and online discussion.

As I understand, you would be getting a new 1 year warranty on the processor part with Intel which we will honor in line with the remaining labour warranty. The warranty of other items is not being considered.

I hope this makes sense and am happy to put this perspective out there relating to the offered upgrade.

(I realise others might have posted since but I cannot address any further, I have a birthday I am later for, apologies for grammar I had to rush!)

 

[SpyderTracks]

My assumption for returning was that this was a recent purchase, my apologies, I should have queries and not assumed.

 

[Tinhead10]

Hi! Missed you as I had tried to ring the office further to the earlier excellent and enlightening replies.
The purpose of the call was just to agree with what I have now been told and to get PC out asap. Please!
Could not make the extra payment for the case as the guys had no way of putting in the order if that's what it is.
I hope you enjoy the birthday and that I can get back to tomorrow am after hospital appointment!

Thanks for your well made considered reply.

Regards

 

[Tinhead10]

My assumption for returning was that this was a recent purchase, my apologies, I should have queries and not assumed.

Still great advise for others!

 

[Oussebon]

As I understand, you would be getting a new 1 year warranty on the processor part with Intel which we will honor in line with the remaining labour warranty. The warranty of other items is not being considered.

So if I've understood the situation correctly from the various posts in this topic, it sounds like PCS are offering - in exchange for the faulty 7900x - an i9 10920x, with a 1 year warranty on that component.

OEM CPUs provided by PCS (i.e. ones for system builders, rather than retail ones) typically only have 1 year warranty - from what I gather from previous topics on this forum anyway. So the 1 year warranty would be the 'full' warranty for that component.

As for the CPU itself, the modern upgrade of the 7900x is the i9 10900x. i.e. the latest iteration of the 10-core X299 CPU. Which is a little faster than the 7900x. That's about the closest to a like-for-like as you can get. The 10920x is even faster (more cores and slightly higher frequencies) than the 10900x. So PCS seem to be offering a substantive upgrade over the original 7900x.

I'm assuming as a gesture of good will or something.

It's @Tinhead10 's system, and their choice of course, but from what I've seen it sound like a fair offer on PCS's part.

Specs of the CPUs for ref:

Intel product specifications

Intel® product specifications, features and compatibility quick reference guide and code name decoder. Compare products including processors, desktop boards, server products and networking products.

ark.intel.com

Nit picking, but there's one bit I really can't let sail past unchallenged (but I'll put in a spoiler tag)

Spoiler: Nit picking

An important point is that we have had some market shifts since the 7900X was offered on the market. At the time the 7900X was released people were advocating the 7700K was the best of the best processor. With the way the market has shifted, many agree that 4 cores is simply not enough and will hold a machine back, in the context of a 7900X or a 7700K at the time, the 7900X is going to have a lot more life in it due to having more than 4 cores and cores becoming more and more important (now that consumers like yourself have access to machines with more cores more easily).

Take this analysis from GamerNexus, often looked at one of the most in depth and impartial computer reviewer and pundit. In their testing at the time of release, they show the 7900X just behind, on par or better than the 7700K (at the time the best gaming focused chip for the money). Taking into account how the 7700K has matured due to the number of cores, I feel the 7900X is the better option moving forwards.

Intel i9-7900X Review: Game Streaming, VR, Production, Overclocking

Today, we're reviewing the Intel Core i9-7900X Skylake X CPU, benchmarking it in game streaming (Twitch, YouTube) vs. Ryzen, in Blender & Premiere rendering, VR gaming, and standard gaming. - P6: i9-7900X Gaming Benchmarks & Conclusion

www.gamersnexus.net

In addressing suitability of an x299 (7900X) system purchased at a time when the market was different, I hope this suffices, your platform has and will continue to mature well. An option for a different platform is not being offered due to the rest of your system still being fine to my understanding (case not included due to the bump it took on the road). With the 1080Ti in the system, I believe this goes to show that the machine had the best gaming treatment considering the platform it was based on at the time.

I don't recall GamersNexus recommending people to buy a 7900x over the 7700k for pure gaming. That's not quite what @Monarch is saying, but just in case anyone misreads.

Also, maybe it's not quite the best fit to compare the 7900x to the 7700k in this instance. Because the OP "Got it only last year" at which point the 8700k was out (late 2017 release). Which undercuts the 7900x-futureproofness argument. It's an elegant argument but doesn't quite do it for me, to the point I felt the need to say so.

Nit-picking done with, that doesn't take away from the core issue here which is that, however the OP ended up with an X299 mobo, they did, and the 10920x is a nice upgrade on a 7900x, and will do well in gaming.

That aside:

have been overclocking since 2004 and have never seen a direct impact to product life in my care or the overclocking of others that wasn't caused by lack of knowledge, attention or care when overclocking. A processor can fail at any time, just as a Ferrari can break down at any time, it doesn't have to break down on the track! It can break down on a shopping run! In the many conversations I have engaged over the years I have not seen a probably metric to say "overclocking by X amount takes X number of years off the life of the product". Its not a metric that can be simply predicted or correlated. This is my experience but it has been backed up with years of hands on time and online discussion.

@Monarch will quite possibly have more experience overclocking than most of the forum community put together, but just to chime in, every time I've ever tried to look up hard stats on overclocking and CPU lifespan, all I ever turned up was discussions like the following:

Does overclocking reduce life span/damage cpu

I really want to overclock my 5820k and my asus pro mobo but I do want to damage or shorten life time or reduce the liability. I am using a corsair h110i gt cpu cooler. I will be using it for at least 4 years

www.techpowerup.com

It's probably impossible to get solid overclock lifespan stats because each individual chip is a bit different, and the way people will use them is so different, plus many other factors. However, the consensus across the web as far as I've found it is that if you keep the voltages and the thermals in check, overclocking won't be what kills the CPU. You'll buy an upgrade long before that happens.

And, bottom line, you don't have to have it overclocked. You could, should you prefer, just run it at stock speeds.