PS5 and XBox Series X

[Vaio]

So I'm sure some of you have seen the spec release of the next gen consoles, what are your thoughts?

There's people on forums with fairly high-end PC's saying their rig is now redundant in terms of "top" gaming

I'm still love consoles and will always buy the PS, mainly because I've had them since PS1 and it's almost a tradition for me. However, I very highly doubt a mid-top spec PC will be outperformed, and mid range I mean something with a 2060 super and above.

 

[stegor]

What do people think of the PS5 design? To me it looks like a modem and a vase got together and had babies.

 

[Vaio]

Difficult to say until they are inaction...a spec list may indicate they are more powerful than a lot of PCs but, in reality, it may be different. I fell out of love with consoles with the PS3 and Gran Turismo 6 as it just underwhelmed (and GTA IV drove me nuts!) and have never owned and XB...I play purely on PC now but I may buy the next Xbox purely so I can stream Forza Horizon 5 when it comes out as I don't think my PC will handle playing and streaming.

If I had to choose between the 2 consoles, I'd definitely go with the Xbox as I prefer it's understated look (although a tad boring) as opposed to the PS5s designer seemingly deciding that marrying the look of a Cylon with that of a BMW i8 was a good way to go

What CPU/GPU do you have? I'm hoping 6 cores from 5 3600 perspective will be enough and RTX 2070 super.. but who knows. Perhaps people will be getting the new nvidia cards a lot sooner

 

[Vaio]

I've got a 3600 paired with a 2060S...that's my limit currently due to my monitor so, even if the XB or PS5 were more powerful, they'd still be the same due to the monitor restrictions

Your PC should be able to handle playing and streaming. I have tried it and it was okay for me, same with playing and recording Obvs depends on how much CPU usage next gen games will take.. but I highly doubt it'll be much more than what we're currently seeing on AAA titles.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Good to know...wasn't sure as the 3700x is normally the minimum recommended for gaming and streaming. I guess it depends how much the streaming software uses up. Gotta get a bigger desk so I can have 2 monitors first...was about to buy the desk when everything went haywire

3600 will do streaming, but obviously has less spare cores. Really any game should be fine with 4 dedicated cores, ideally 6, then assign 2 to the stream.

The 3700x (or 3800x) will give you those 2 spare cores that you don't have to specifically assign to the stream as they'll be free anyway, but the 3600 should still perform perfectly well for gaming and streaming.

 

[SpyderTracks]

I think regarding the PS5 / XBox series X, what will be the interesting thing is the price.

I just can't get my head around them selling them for anything under £700, just don't see how it's economically viable. The BOM on the SOC alone is going to be LARGE compared to previous generations. And I think this will put most normal adopters off buying them straight outright, I think both MS and Sony will HAVE to adopt a "subscription" based package like a phone, otherwise I think they'll lose a lot of people to the PC market.

If you factor in the following:

GPU = 2080 Super - Retail cost £700, knock off 25% retailer markup = £525 Less volume discount of 15% = @£447

CPU = 3700x - Retail cost £280, knock off 25% retailer markup = £210 Less volume discount of 15% = @£180.50

That's being relatively conservative based off current prices..... that's just for those 2 parts. Then factor in a premium 850Gb SSD? It really adds up quickly. I know they'll both take a hit on the full cost, but even so, I just can't see them taking THAT much of a hit.

Furthermore, I think MS BOM price will be higher than Sony's purely based on projected sales. XBox One really hasn't done very well at all compared to PS4 sales, Sony are well ahead coming out of the gates. Plus I still don't really understand where MS is trying to take their business model, it appears they're fully focussed on cloud gaming so I have no doubt we have more to find out in that space with Project xCloud.

Then there's the hardware vs software comparison.... on paper the XBox is more powerful, but can the OS maximise that power? PS have really knocked the ball out of the park with their storage controller actually making the speed of the 8000mbs SSD be able to improve game performance, that's never been done before since when, maybe old 5400rpm HDD's in the mid 90's? That technology alone is a game changer, and I doubt MS have anything that can compare, otherwise it would already be in Windows previews, or would have been leaked by now.

There's no doubt they're extremely powerful, but I still don't think they'll hold a candle to a PC once the 3000 series GPU's are released, and AMD's counterparts. All the leaks suggest a pretty major leap in performance from both manufacturers. These consoles are top bracket of this generation, but essentially, that's already out of date.

It's going to be very exciting.

The most important thing is though, it's actually driving innovation from all camps, MS, Sony, AMD and nVidia (I'll loosely mention Intel) are all competing against each other because of this generation. Thats some magic that hasn't really been around for quite a number of years.

 

[slimbob]

I still think they will sell around £500 to get the sale and will be prepared to make a loss. I think they want to get as many customers as possible and then make money on the backend of their sales model including some kind of continuity subscription product. How much are they prepared to pay to get the customer (initial sale) into their sales funnel that's the big question. I personally think they will be prepared to go negative on the console and make it seem an irresistible bargain and then work on a clever way to bridge the gap of acquiring the customer. We will have to wait and see, very exciting!!!

 

[Paddy Baxter]

What do people think of the PS5 design? To me it looks like a modem and a vase got together and had babies.

Yeah it’s pretty much an abomination

 

[Tony1044]

What do people think of the PS5 design? To me it looks like a modem and a vase got together and had babies.

Looks like a Carling lager pump

 

[Dan79]

I'm on the side of like - another black box in the corner would annoy me. Also will be intrested to see what they do with some of the limited edition consoles. (Cyberpunk 2077 vase???)

 

[Dan79]

@SpyderTracks Thank you for that information...now all I need is a new desk big enough to accomodate both my 32" screens so I can try streaming (and, yes, I need 2 screens that big as I sit over 6 feet away and my eyes are getting older ).

As to the other post, what I find most concerning is that there is still no news on the XB Flagship game.....PS4 has Gran Turismo 7 confirmed for it's release (although whether Kaz will be able to deliver it on time is another matter given their history) but there is still no news on Forza Motorsport 8 (though I hear there may finally be news in July). Given that Forza will likely still be available on PC, and now we have the streaming question out of the way, I may well be skipping 2 console generations.

Clearly the time is right to purchase a second PC to handle the streaming.... The Inferno is good

 

[Rosco400]

It's blowing my mind how the next gen consoles are claiming to run 4k @ 60fps with ray tracing capabilities and are estimated to be priced around the £450/£500 mark. To even have a chance of running 4k @ 60 fps without RT do you not need a 2070 S minimum if you want reasonable graphics settings? Considering what they sell for how on earth are the next gen consoles doing it? Are Nvidia just ripping off pc consumers? I bought a pc (r5 3600 X and a 2060 S) last year for well over £1000 and gutted to learn a £500 console sounds like it will blow it out the water.

 

[stegor]

It's blowing my mind how the next gen consoles are claiming to run 4k @ 60fps with ray tracing capabilities and are estimated to be priced around the £450/£500 mark. To even have a chance of running 4k @ 60 fps without RT do you not need a 2070 S minimum if you want reasonable graphics settings? Considering what they sell for how on earth are the next gen consoles doing it? Are Nvidia just ripping off pc consumers? I bought a pc (r5 3600 X and a 2060 S) last year for well over £1000 and gutted to learn a £500 console sounds like it will blow it out the water.

The consoles are loss leaders, at least initially. They make money on the games and subscriptions. Plus as the hardware matures they start to make money on it and with special editions etc.

 

[Tony1044]

The consoles are loss leaders, at least initially. They make money on the games and subscriptions. Plus as the hardware matures they start to make money on it and with special editions etc.

I seem to recall there is a fee to produce games as well.

Interestingly in an earlier thread, I'd said the same about the xbox and Spyder corrected me - MS were finally making a small profit per device, but when I worked for them I'd seen internal docs that showed it was a loss per sale.

I think we also have to remember that when a manufacturer is ordering in the hundreds of thousands- potentially millions over the lifetime of the unit - components, they can drive costs down much further than many other suppliers would be able to.

 

[SpyderTracks]

I seem to recall there is a fee to produce games as well.

Interestingly in an earlier thread, I'd said the same about the xbox and Spyder corrected me - MS were finally making a small profit per device, but when I worked for them I'd seen internal docs that showed it was a loss per sale.

I think we also have to remember that when a manufacturer is ordering in the hundreds of thousands- potentially millions over the lifetime of the unit - components, they can drive costs down much further than many other suppliers would be able to.

I do wonder if AMD are taking a loss on the SOC or at least selling it for cost as it will really change their permeation into the consumer space, and that alone would add additional boost to overall sales by getting their name out more alongside incredible performance. That's the only way I can think they'd be able to get the BOM value down enough to be able to sell it around the £500 mark.

 

[stegor]

Don't forget that if it launches at £500 here in the UK, that's £150 more than the PS4 launched at, a not insignificant 43% increase.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Don't forget that if it launches at £500 here in the UK, that's £150 more than the PS4 launched at, a not insignificant 43% increase.

But that’s my point, the previous iterations BOM was FAR under what this is going to be, they were able to sell them at those prices because the BOM was near that value. They made a loss on accrued advertising, marketing and R&D which is an acceptable loss but the BOM was largely covered or exceeded.

This generation is an expensive BOM in my estimation, we’ll above £500.

 

[stegor]

But that’s my point, the previous iterations BOM was FAR under what this is going to be, they were able to sell them at those prices because the BOM was near that value. They made a loss on accrued advertising, marketing and R&D which is an acceptable loss but the BOM was largely covered or exceeded.

This generation is an expensive BOM in my estimation, we’ll above £500.

So they may try for £550? Or is £499 a psychological barrier?

 

[SpyderTracks]

So they may try for £550? Or is £499 a psychological barrier?

I can’t see the BOM being under £700 alone, that’s the thing, the GPU and CPU are much much higher tier than they usually put in, even with a volume discount it’s still going to be exorbitantly more than previous generations.

There’s never been a BOM anywhere near this high, the highest being on the XBox one which was around $450.

It’s the general murmer on the net that people don’t think they’ll charge more than $500

 

[Vaio]

I can’t see the BOM being under £700 alone, that’s the thing, the GPU and CPU are much much higher tier than they usually put in, even with a volume discount it’s still going to be exorbitantly more than previous generations.

There’s never been a BOM anywhere near this high, the highest being on the XBox one which was around $450.

It’s the general murmer on the net that people don’t think they’ll charge more than $500

I have to agree, £450-£500 seems a bit low, especially considering the tech that's gone into them. I wouldn't be surprised if they are close to £700, or the other aspect is having a £500 ish price tag and making the games a lot more expensive, as if £50 wasn't enough.