RTX 3080

[Boomer]

Ok, so I spoke to PCS this morning. They were very helpful but told me that there was no chance my 3080 would arrive in time for Christmas and little chance my 5900X would arrive either. The person I spoke to estimate it could be February before I got the system.

I haven't refunded my PCS order yet, I will keep it open until I get confirmation on Monday that this site's stock has indeed come in. Fingers crossed...

That is a very helpful update. My spec is very similar to yours and I placed my order three days later than you. All things being equal, my PC will be coming in Feb+3 days. I am sure it will be worth the wait.

Fingers crossed it arrives before the daffodils.

 

[Boomer]

I don't know how many times we can say that these stock level problems are not of PCS's making, it's a supplier issue and indeed a global supplier issue that is affecting everyone.

Knowing your position is some queue isn't going to get your order built one second faster, nor does it tell you anything useful - because you don't know when the next delivery of parts will arrive, how many units will be in there, nor even whether one will be allocated to your build. You simply don't know how fast the queue is moving and without that critical bit of information your position in the queue may just as well be a random number for all it's worth to you.

Not only do those who feel the need to keep contacting PCS to find their position in the queue not get any special treatment, they are distracting PCS staff from assisting those who really do need help and bothering those who manage the build process to provide information that of itself is no help. You are potentially slowing PCS down for no good reason.

The argument that we've thrown 2k to 3k at PCS and we hear nothing doesn't wash either. Everyone has paid a considerable sum of money to PCS but it doesn't matter whether you spend £500 or £5000, PCS will treat each order in the same way. Have you given a thought to how much cash PCS have "thrown" at their suppliers and not received what they've ordered either?

We understand it's incredibly frustrating waiting for a build you've already paid for and not knowing how much longer you may have to wait. If PCS were able to provide real-time indications of when each build would be delivered, at a reasonable cost to them, then they would. That they're not telling you means that either they can't provide that information (because they have no idea when stock will be delivered) and/or because it's not economically practical to reliably establish that information. And remember, even if you did have a firm delivery date, it's not going to be any earlier than it will be with you not knowing.

<snip>
Knowing your position is some queue isn't going to get your order built one second faster, nor does it tell you anything useful - because you don't know when the next delivery of parts will arrive, how many units will be in there, nor even whether one will be allocated to your build.
<snip>

I disagree with this point. Its a bit like being on hold on the phone. If you are just "on hold" you don't know if you will be waiting for a minute or an hour. Some systems tell you your place in the queue. Knowing you are 20th in the queue, then 19, then 18 ... 17 ... etc. shows the rate of progress. Although you still don't know if you will be waiting for a minute or an hour (even if you are next in line) you have some information about average time for each call to process.

So I am very happy to read posts from folk that ordered in September and are now getting their PCs. And I am looking forward to reading about people who rang up to discover that they were 140th in the queue but are now 40th. And comparing their order date to mine so I can forecast a window of delivery.

Otherwise we are just waiting for the PC equivalent of Godot.

"But that is not the question. What are we doing here, that is the question. And we are blessed in this, that we happen to know the answer. Yes, in the immense confusion one thing alone is clear. We are waiting for [the 3080] to come -- ” Sorry SB.

 

[ubuysa]

I disagree with this point. Its a bit like being on hold on the phone. If you are just "on hold" you don't know if you will be waiting for a minute or an hour. Some systems tell you your place in the queue. Knowing you are 20th in the queue, then 19, then 18 ... 17 ... etc. shows the rate of progress. Although you still don't know if you will be waiting for a minute or an hour (even if you are next in line) you have some information about average time for each call to process.

So I am very happy to read posts from folk that ordered in September and are now getting their PCs. And I am looking forward to reading about people who rang up to discover that they were 140th in the queue but are now 40th. And comparing their order date to mine so I can forecast a window of delivery.

You're kind of making my point here.

You said that by knowing you are 20th in the queue, then 19, then 18 ... 17 ... etc. shows the rate of progress - and that was my point. Knowing how fast the queue is moving is critical. In a queue that moves at a fairly regular interval, knowing your position in the queue and the speed the queue moves you can work out roughly when you'll be served. The problem here is that you don't know how fast the queue moves, because it doesn't move at a regular rate. Since PCS are getting limited and irregular deliveries of stock the queue will move a few places and then stop for several days (weeks?) and the move again but by a different amount (because PCS are not getting the same number of units in each delivery) and then stop again for several days (weeks?). Knowing that you're number 154 in the queue doesn't help you figure out whether your order will be built this week, next week, or even next month.

I agree that it can be instructive and helpful to see in this thread how other people's builds are being delivered and knowing that the queue is moving. From their date of order you can get some rough idea of how long your build might take - possibly. IMO however, calling PCS every so often to find your position in the queue does nobody any good.

 

[Gix]

Competitors have queue position updates and periodic delivery updates across the 30 series available for even non-customers to view.

Knowing these things does nothing to expedite your order. It would make me FEEL better though - perhaps that's just me but I HIGHLY doubt it.

A customer wants a product.
A company sells that product and wants the customers money.
The customer knows there are universal supply issues meaning the purchase priorities shift around pricing, quality and ability to deliver in a timely manner (stress that last part).
A company has the customer's money but cannot deliver the product - they know the customer would demand their money back immediately if they believed or had reason to suspect they could actually get what they want sooner somewhere else.

It drains me coming on here and seeing so much defense of PCS for deliberately keeping people in the dark. Getting a number and seeing stock intake periodically doesn't make me get what I want (from PCS) any quicker, but it does give me information with which to make an informed decision about whether I'm happy to let my 2500 sheets sit in PCS' bank account or if I'd rather chance a build or pre-build somewhere else.

I know they're doing their best, I know this isn't at all their fault, in all my communications with PCS I've been the perfect customer and I intend to continue to patiently wait in the dark and look forward to the day PCS fulfills my order (as I am certain they look forward to as well).

However, please don't and tell me it's raining - they don't want you informed because informed customers get better outcomes than uninformed ones. Above all else their priority is retaining your money and making sure you don't get any ideas about chancing it somewhere else. It's not that it CANT be done, it's TRUE that it won't get your build to you any quicker, but it WOULD give you more information. Knowledge is power fellas, and I just wish they'd share a little more with me.

Working Day 29: Pre-Production
Finally cracked and needed to vent. The long winter wait continues...

 

[Mike-]

Competitors have queue position updates and periodic delivery updates across the 30 series available for even non-customers to view.

Knowing these things does nothing to expedite your order. It would make me FEEL better though - perhaps that's just me but I HIGHLY doubt it.

A customer wants a product.
A company sells that product and wants the customers money.
The customer knows there are universal supply issues meaning the purchase priorities shift around pricing, quality and ability to deliver in a timely manner (stress that last part).
A company has the customer's money but cannot deliver the product - they know the customer would demand their money back immediately if they believed or had reason to suspect they could actually get what they want sooner somewhere else.

It drains me coming on here and seeing so much defense of PCS for deliberately keeping people in the dark. Getting a number and seeing stock intake periodically doesn't make me get what I want (from PCS) any quicker, but it does give me information with which to make an informed decision about whether I'm happy to let my 2500 sheets sit in PCS' bank account or if I'd rather chance a build or pre-build somewhere else.

I know they're doing their best, I know this isn't at all their fault, in all my communications with PCS I've been the perfect customer and I intend to continue to patiently wait in the dark and look forward to the day PCS fulfills my order (as I am certain they look forward to as well).

However, please don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining - they don't want you informed because informed customers get better outcomes than uninformed ones. Above all else their priority is retaining your money and making sure you don't get any ideas about chancing it somewhere else. It's not that it CANT be done, it's TRUE that it won't get your build to you any quicker, but it WOULD give you more information. Knowledge is power fellas, and I just wish they'd share a little more with me.

Working Day 29: Pre-Production
Finally cracked and needed to vent. The long winter wait continues...

Well said!

 

[Tamutol]

Competitors have queue position updates and periodic delivery updates across the 30 series available for even non-customers to view.

Knowing these things does nothing to expedite your order. It would make me FEEL better though - perhaps that's just me but I HIGHLY doubt it.

A customer wants a product.
A company sells that product and wants the customers money.
The customer knows there are universal supply issues meaning the purchase priorities shift around pricing, quality and ability to deliver in a timely manner (stress that last part).
A company has the customer's money but cannot deliver the product - they know the customer would demand their money back immediately if they believed or had reason to suspect they could actually get what they want sooner somewhere else.

It drains me coming on here and seeing so much defense of PCS for deliberately keeping people in the dark. Getting a number and seeing stock intake periodically doesn't make me get what I want (from PCS) any quicker, but it does give me information with which to make an informed decision about whether I'm happy to let my 2500 sheets sit in PCS' bank account or if I'd rather chance a build or pre-build somewhere else.

I know they're doing their best, I know this isn't at all their fault, in all my communications with PCS I've been the perfect customer and I intend to continue to patiently wait in the dark and look forward to the day PCS fulfills my order (as I am certain they look forward to as well).

However, please don't and tell me it's raining - they don't want you informed because informed customers get better outcomes than uninformed ones. Above all else their priority is retaining your money and making sure you don't get any ideas about chancing it somewhere else. It's not that it CANT be done, it's TRUE that it won't get your build to you any quicker, but it WOULD give you more information. Knowledge is power fellas, and I just wish they'd share a little more with me.

Working Day 29: Pre-Production
Finally cracked and needed to vent. The long winter wait continues...

I don’t see how having information about when our orders are likely to arrive is a bad thing. All we want to know is that progress is happening. Those of us on 40/50 day wait times aren’t impatient children throwing our toys out the pram, we just want to know that at some point in December/January/2022 the computer we dreamed of will arrive.
And knowing that there is a fair system where orders are being completed helps us wait patiently. Got to say I’m not a fan of this shadows and whispers approach that’s being pushed.

 

[SpyderTracks]

I don’t see how having information about when our orders are likely to arrive is a bad thing. All we want to know is that progress is happening. Those of us on 40/50 day wait times aren’t impatient children throwing our toys out the pram, we just want to know that at some point in December/January/2022 the computer we dreamed of will arrive.
And knowing that there is a fair system where orders are being completed helps us wait patiently. Got to say I’m not a fan of this shadows and whispers approach that’s being pushed.

Do you understand what a stock system is? What your asking for PCS don't have.... it's all well and good saying we want this, but do you understand you can't get this without investing multiple millions of pounds in software tailored to your business which takes months to implement and likely will need serious hardware support also?

I'm sure they will implement something like this at some point given the issues they've faced this year, but currently it doesn't exist.

I have no idea why some people are finding this so hard to understand, it's basic business.

 

[Tamutol]

Do you understand what a stock system is? What your asking for PCS don't have.... it's all well and good saying we want this, but do you understand you can't get this without investing multiple millions of pounds in software tailored to your business which takes months to implement and likely will need serious hardware support also?

I'm sure they will implement something like this at some point given the issues they've faced this year, but currently it doesn't exist.

I have no idea why some people are finding this so hard to understand, it's basic business.

For all this defensive work they are able to give me an idea of when my order is coming if you check my older reply.
I’m glad they were because it was frustrating speaking to the Alice chat bot. The reply with information gave me a good idea of where I’m out so they must’ve already spent ‘millions’ on ‘basic business’.
I think your lack of understanding of customer service and support (which PCS do a good job of) is the bigger problem here.

 

[ubuysa]

Competitors have queue position updates and periodic delivery updates across the 30 series available for even non-customers to view.

Knowing these things does nothing to expedite your order. It would make me FEEL better though - perhaps that's just me but I HIGHLY doubt it.

A customer wants a product.
A company sells that product and wants the customers money.
The customer knows there are universal supply issues meaning the purchase priorities shift around pricing, quality and ability to deliver in a timely manner (stress that last part).
A company has the customer's money but cannot deliver the product - they know the customer would demand their money back immediately if they believed or had reason to suspect they could actually get what they want sooner somewhere else.

It drains me coming on here and seeing so much defense of PCS for deliberately keeping people in the dark. Getting a number and seeing stock intake periodically doesn't make me get what I want (from PCS) any quicker, but it does give me information with which to make an informed decision about whether I'm happy to let my 2500 sheets sit in PCS' bank account or if I'd rather chance a build or pre-build somewhere else.

I know they're doing their best, I know this isn't at all their fault, in all my communications with PCS I've been the perfect customer and I intend to continue to patiently wait in the dark and look forward to the day PCS fulfills my order (as I am certain they look forward to as well).

However, please don't and tell me it's raining - they don't want you informed because informed customers get better outcomes than uninformed ones. Above all else their priority is retaining your money and making sure you don't get any ideas about chancing it somewhere else. It's not that it CANT be done, it's TRUE that it won't get your build to you any quicker, but it WOULD give you more information. Knowledge is power fellas, and I just wish they'd share a little more with me.

Working Day 29: Pre-Production
Finally cracked and needed to vent. The long winter wait continues...

What you conveniently forget is that you have a choice. If you're not happy with the way PCS are treating your custom then cancel the build, get a full refund, and go somewhere else.

Nobody is forcing you to stick with PCS. It's utter nonsense for you to say that above all else their priority is retaining your money and making sure you don't get any ideas about chancing it somewhere else, because a) you have no evidence of that, and b) you're free to cancel at any time for a full refund. It's your choice to stick it out.

I do agree with you when you say that knowledge is power fellas, and I just wish they'd share a little more with me, but I believe that they're not sharing information with customers either because they don't have any to share, or because it's in a form that doesn't lend itself to being easily published. I don't accept for one second that PCS are deliberately sitting on information they could give you just to keep you from cancelling your order. We've had a couple of posts on here from a PCS employee (@Ghosthud) who has shared details of the number of orders they have for builds with particular components and the numbers of deliveries of those components that they've had, so it's clear they're not keeping secrets.

I fully understand your need to vent, that's one of the useful things about this thread. I don't believe that anyone is being defensive, and if you've been on here long enough you'll already know that pretty much everyone (including me) has been critical of PCS when we believe they've dropped the ball. In this case however, it's my opinion that no information is being shared with customers because no reliable information exists - or at least none that they would trust.

 

[SpyderTracks]

For all this defensive work they are able to give me an idea of when my order is coming if you check my older reply.
I’m glad they were because it was frustrating speaking to the Alice chat bot. The reply with information gave me a good idea of where I’m out so they must’ve already spent ‘millions’ on ‘basic business’.
I think your lack of understanding of customer service and support (which PCS do a good job of) is the bigger problem here.

Be warned. You've been on the forum since wednesday and you're immediately jumping on this pointless negative moan.

We will be issuing warnings if this train continues, it drags everyone down. Please read over the history of this thread where PCS repetitively explain why they can't do what you're asking for.

 

[Martinr36]

I get the impression that folk think there is one queue specifically for say people having 3080's in their build or that because they have forked out £600+ on one part they take preference on someone who has spent that amount on a total build, and i'm pretty sure that with X amount of of builders & Y amount of total orders PCS are going to make the best use of their resources to get as many total orders out the door as quickly as possible

 

[Tamutol]

Be warned. You've been on the forum since wednesday and you're immediately jumping on this pointless negative moan.

We will be issuing warnings if this train continues, it drags everyone down. Please read over the history of this thread where PCS repetitively explain why they can't do what you're asking for.

I’ve been on this thread since early October thanks. Having spoken to PCS directly I’m quite please with how helpful the staff are. Mods on the forum less so.

 

[SpyderTracks]

I’ve been on this thread since early October thanks. Having spoken to PCS directly I’m quite please with how helpful the staff are. Mods on the forum less so.

 

[ubuysa]

I’ve been on this thread since early October thanks. Having spoken to PCS directly I’m quite please with how helpful the staff are. Mods on the forum less so.

The moderators are not selected by PCS to be helpful, they're selected to ensure that the forum remains a safe and pleasant place to be. If you'd been here longer than 3 days you'd probably appreciate the amount of work that the moderators voluntarily do for people on here. Take a look over the entire forum sometime and see whose names crop up again and again offering help to people.

I suggest you get your feet under the table for a while longer before you presume to offer any opinions on anybody on here!

 

[Martinr36]

The moderators are not selected by PCS to be helpful, they're selected to ensure that the forum remains a safe and pleasant place to be. If you'd been here longer than 3 days you'd probably appreciate the amount of work that the moderators voluntarily do for people on here. Take a look over the entire forum sometime and see whose names crop up again and again offering help to people.

I suggest you get your feet under the table for a while longer before you presume to offer any opinions on anybody on here!

The moderators & regular posters on here are more than helpful & friendly, and do a great job

 

[Gix]

What you conveniently forget is that you have a choice. If you're not happy with the way PCS are treating your custom then cancel the build, get a full refund, and go somewhere else.

Nobody is forcing you to stick with PCS. It's utter nonsense for you to say that above all else their priority is retaining your money and making sure you don't get any ideas about chancing it somewhere else, because a) you have no evidence of that, and b) you're free to cancel at any time for a full refund. It's your choice to stick it out.

I do agree with you when you say that knowledge is power fellas, and I just wish they'd share a little more with me, but I believe that they're not sharing information with customers either because they don't have any to share, or because it's in a form that doesn't lend itself to being easily published. I don't accept for one second that PCS are deliberately sitting on information they could give you just to keep you from cancelling your order. We've had a couple of posts on here from a PCS employee (@Ghosthud) who has shared details of the number of orders they have for builds with particular components and the numbers of deliveries of those components that they've had, so it's clear they're not keeping secrets.

I fully understand your need to vent, that's one of the useful things about this thread. I don't believe that anyone is being defensive, and if you've been on here long enough you'll already know that pretty much everyone (including me) has been critical of PCS when we believe they've dropped the ball. In this case however, it's my opinion that no information is being shared with customers because no reliable information exists - or at least none that they would trust.

No you're absolutely right I don't have any evidence to definitively substantiate that claim - I'm just arriving at the natural conclusion from what limited understanding of the situation I can deduce and that's not entirely fair of me. Correct or incorrect, It is however the feeling I get. A feeling probably shared by some other customers as well and that should, I think, concern PCS a great deal.

I'm very aware I have the choice to ask for a refund and take my custom elsewhere, though 'shut up, you'll get what you get when you get it' doesn't excite me about the prospect of repeat business in future. They can't tell me how many cards they got in the last shipment? They can't tell me how many 30 series builds are being shipped per week? Doesn't seem like abstract or difficult to obtain information, again, I'm just an end user and I'm just relaying my feelings - I don't know* the details.

What I do know though, is that decision you aptly reminded me that I have - to go somewhere else - would be substantially easier for me to make if I had some more details from PCS. I certainly wouldn't want to open myself up to the possibility of losing potential sales by empirically demonstrating that my lead times, inflow and outflow of products is significantly worse than my competitors if I wasn't legally obligated to. I'd concede it's poor treatment of my customers but would reassure myself that I'm making the best decision for the business.

I don't recall seeing the posts by that employee but thank you for referring me to it - seems odd that those details can be shared on the forum but not relayed to relevant customers on an automated, weekly basis. Also thanks (I assume it was you) who moderated my post, I apologise for my breach of forum rules and appreciate your input and recognise that everything I've said has likely been said before in the thread - I just needed to vent my frustrations a little and it's easier doing it here than posting an angry letter to Nvidia.

 

[SpyderTracks]

I don't recall seeing the posts by that employee but thank you for referring me to it - seems odd that those details can be shared on the forum but not relayed to relevant customers on an automated, weekly basis

This is what I dont' understand though, do people understand how software works, that this would be a custom feature to a product they have, that they would need to buy that work off the developers of whatever system they use which would cost and absolute fortune for bespoke work, and then have the hardware to support it? And that's even if the devs offered that service which a lot don't?

It really isn't that difficult to undertsand, the feature just isn't there. Simply saying, "well I think it should be done this way so why isn't it" is just a fundamental misunderstanding of how software works.

I just needed to vent my frustrations a little and it's easier doing it here than posting an angry letter to Nvidia.

It was me who edited it, just to remove the slightly adult language.

I fully understand you're venting, and you're perfectly allowed to do that. We have to be careful when things like "magically improve the stock system" are said, because the majority of people think that's something that can just be done by PCS themselves.

 

[Mike-]

This is what I dont' understand though, do people understand how software works, that this would be a custom feature to a product they have, that they would need to buy that work off the developers of whatever system they use which would cost and absolute fortune for bespoke work, and then have the hardware to support it? And that's even if the devs offered that service which a lot don't?

It really isn't that difficult to undertsand, the feature just isn't there. Simply saying, "well I think it should be done this way so why isn't it" is just a fundamental misunderstanding of how software works.


It was me who edited it, just to remove the slightly adult language.

I fully understand you're venting, and you're perfectly allowed to do that. We have to be careful when things like "magically improve the stock system" are said, because the majority of people think that's something that can just be done by PCS themselves.

Software developer here - feel free to contact me PCS. This is not as difficult as being implied.

 

[[email protected]]

Competitors have queue position updates and periodic delivery updates across the 30 series available for even non-customers to view.

Knowing these things does nothing to expedite your order. It would make me FEEL better though - perhaps that's just me but I HIGHLY doubt it.

A customer wants a product.
A company sells that product and wants the customers money.
The customer knows there are universal supply issues meaning the purchase priorities shift around pricing, quality and ability to deliver in a timely manner (stress that last part).
A company has the customer's money but cannot deliver the product - they know the customer would demand their money back immediately if they believed or had reason to suspect they could actually get what they want sooner somewhere else.

It drains me coming on here and seeing so much defense of PCS for deliberately keeping people in the dark. Getting a number and seeing stock intake periodically doesn't make me get what I want (from PCS) any quicker, but it does give me information with which to make an informed decision about whether I'm happy to let my 2500 sheets sit in PCS' bank account or if I'd rather chance a build or pre-build somewhere else.

I know they're doing their best, I know this isn't at all their fault, in all my communications with PCS I've been the perfect customer and I intend to continue to patiently wait in the dark and look forward to the day PCS fulfills my order (as I am certain they look forward to as well).

However, please don't and tell me it's raining - they don't want you informed because informed customers get better outcomes than uninformed ones. Above all else their priority is retaining your money and making sure you don't get any ideas about chancing it somewhere else. It's not that it CANT be done, it's TRUE that it won't get your build to you any quicker, but it WOULD give you more information. Knowledge is power fellas, and I just wish they'd share a little more with me.

Working Day 29: Pre-Production
Finally cracked and needed to vent. The long winter wait continues...

Agreed

 

[ubuysa]

The bottom line is that this appears to be how PCS have chosen to operate. None of us on here have any idea why that is, nor whether the information that people seem to want even exists.

It's clear from the posts from @Ghosthud earlier the PCS are well aware that people want more information. His posts seemed to be an attempt to provide whatever information they either had or were prepared to share.

There is no point in posting on here that other companies provide more details, nor suggesting that PCS should do the same. Whatever the reasons, this is the way PCS have chosen to operate during these difficult times.

There really are then only two choices; accept that it's going to be a long wait of indeterminate length, or cancel your order and go to another company.