Windows 10 Technical Preview

[ubuysa]

Anyone else joined the Windows Insider Program to evaluate the Windows 10 Technical Preview? There is a wealth of knowledge, experience and skills on here and I'd have thought that collectively we can make a useful input. Joining the Windows Insider Program is free and easy - you just need a Microsoft Account, go to http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/preview to get started. Once you're signed up you can download the Windows 10 Technical Preview iso and get started!

I'm running the Windows 10 Technical Preview in a virtual machine under VirtualBox (I know Microsoft don't license their OSs on VMs, but for this I doubt they'll care). This is not for novices though, the technical preview is not a complete OS, it must not be installed on a primary machine, it will be very buggy and it will crash.

There is a Feedback app included for you to report back to Microsoft on problems you found, things you liked, things you didn't, suggestions for doing things differently etc. Below are some screen-shots of my Windows 10 Technical Preview system. It would be nice if we could share ideas and suggestions on here, the more of us that say the same thing the more likely Microsoft are to take note.

 

[mantadog]

I installed VirtualBox a month or so ago to have fun with those phone scammers, so far has 3 virtual machines totally trashed by those nice peoples... Might see how they react to windows 10 for a laugh and I can have a play with it too, though I am going to be real short on time I might have a go and see what its like.

Given that I plan on upgrading to 10 when I get my new machine it might not be such a bad thing anyway, currently still on windows 7.

 

[ubuysa]

I installed VirtualBox a month or so ago to have fun with those phone scammers, so far has 3 virtual machines totally trashed by those nice peoples... Might see how they react to windows 10 for a laugh and I can have a play with it too, though I am going to be real short on time I might have a go and see what its like.

Given that I plan on upgrading to 10 when I get my new machine it might not be such a bad thing anyway, currently still on windows 7.

Windows 10 is fussy about some of the virtual machine settings in VirtualBox, if you get stick PM me.

 

[ubuysa]

After playing with the Windows 10 Technical Preview system for a few hours I'm not that impressed. I looks like Windows 8.1 with a fudged start menu added.

Things I like:

The additional desktop feature, although the implementation is flawed. The extra desktops are just copies of the original with all the applications minimised. The only difference is that different desktops can have different applications maximised. So they're not additional desktops, they're just different views of the same desktop.

Things I don't like:

The start menu. It's still biased heavily towards the modern apps. As installed the start menu consists almost entirely of modern apps and we still have the awful clunky tiles from the "old" Windows 8 start menu.

The modern apps can be run in a window but it's size is very constrained. They look awful on a desktop, they're not intuitive on a desktop, they're not mouse friendly, and they look large and clunky. The modern apps have no place on a desktop in my opinion.

The drop-shadow under windows. It spoils the clean and minimal Windows 8 interface. They should either re-introduce the Aero Glass theme completely or go back to the clean look of Windows 8 with no shadows.

A few applications don't run properly. Comodo Internet Security BSODs when run in proactive mode, MBAM scanner installs and runs ok but the title bar has a glitch in the shading, but almost everything I've installed so far works.

I've told Microsoft that in my opinion if the RTM looks like this preview they're in for another disaster. I told them to checkout the Linux Mint menu to see how a desktop menu should be organised. I also told them that in my opinion the OS should either detect what platform it's being installed on or ask the user whether it's a tablet or desktop. If it's a desktop the modern apps should not be installed (unless the user asks for them).

I know it's early days and this is the first (of probably many) technical previews, but disappointing is the only word to describe what I've seen so far.

 

[Spuff]

The start menu. It's still biased heavily towards the modern apps. As installed the start menu consists almost entirely of modern apps and we still have the awful clunky tiles from the "old" Windows 8 start menu.
.

Unless something like Start8 can't work with 10, then you won't have to see tiles in the start menu, if the finished Windows 10 has those. If 10 has performance benefits it might get me to change, you will probably be able to set it out how you want.
The only tile type view I see with any frequency in 8 is is when I click on a RAW photo file, which is natively viewable in 8 and isn't in 7.

 

[ubuysa]

Unless something like Start8 can't work with 10, then you won't have to see tiles in the start menu, if the finished Windows 10 has those. If 10 has performance benefits it might get me to change, you will probably be able to set it out how you want.
The only tile type view I see with any frequency in 8 is is when I click on a RAW photo file, which is natively viewable in 8 and isn't in 7.

You won't need Start8, the Windows 10 start menu is the Windows 7 start menu with the modern app tiles bolted on. Take a look at the start menu image I posted in my OP (it's the third image from the left). Those tiles can only be shrunk to the size of the four in the top left corner, you can see from this image that they're too big to look nice (they're clunky and clumsy) and yet their function is not always obvious. I added several programs to that space and shrank them to the minimum and was unable to later work out what they were for! If you click the All Apps item you get the familiar All Programs start menu list from Windows 7 (and Start8), but with every single modern app listed first.....

I have suggested to Microsoft that what is needed in Windows 10 is a new, completely redesigned, start menu for the desktop that is intuitive, flexible, customisable, attractive, and easy to use. But I also asked for choice, so that those who want the tablet start menu on a desktop can have it. I suggested to them that if they release Windows 10 with this start menu it will be laughed at as Windows 8 with the Windows 7 start menu added and the modern app tiles bolted on the side - because that's exactly what this is.

 

[mdwh]

As long as default apps for filetypes are set up more appropriately, I don't think it matters whether the modern apps are installed or not. On Windows 8, it's easy to unpin ones that you don't use - is it not the same on the new start menu in 10? I've got rid of all the ones I don't use on my laptop (ones I do use are things where the new UI looks fine, and optionally having it in a window would be even better - stuff like playing music, video, games, viewing photos).

People talk about desktops vs tablets, but remember many of us are using laptops

I can see it being annoying if the Modern Apps are listed first in the All Programs view; perhaps they should just be alphabetical without being distinguished. But I always found the All Programs (in 7 or 8) to be a terrible way to find things, and only a last resort - I find things much better by searching.

Various Linux distributions (and I think Linux Mint is like this) sort applications into categories - Accessories, Graphics, Internet, Office, etc. This is something that would be very useful on Windows for the All Apps view (whether in a windowed "menu" or full "screen"). Though there's a problem in implementation - this works on Linux because every installation package describes which category it goes in. On Windows, you've got the entirety of existing applications which don't categorise themselves. They could introduce it, and have everything not support it be "uncategorised", but it'll be a long while to see the benefits. It could perhaps be done already for the Modern Apps (since they have their category on the Windows Store), but not for other apps.

I suggested to them that if they release Windows 10 with this start menu it will be laughed at as Windows 8 with the Windows 7 start menu added and the modern app tiles bolted on the side - because that's exactly what this is.

To be fair, that's what most of the Windows 8 critics are asking for. Whilst it would be interesting if they could develop a brand new menu - even if say, they went and brought in something just like Linux Mint, the 1% of people who've used Linux Mint might go "great", and everyone else would say they hate it, because it's different to what they've used before...

 

[dogbot]

There is an option to list desktop programs first, but it is greyed out in this version of W10.

 

[Boozad]

I've been running W10 Tech Preview in a VM (VMWare) since release and so far my impressions are that it's W8.2. I've modified the Start menu so that there are no live tiles on there at all, I've just added my shared folders from my W7 host for ease of access to files. The Start Menu I could get used to but I don't like the 'All Apps' feature instead of the 'All Programs' feature. It still feels like MS are trying to spanner a 'one size fits all' OS onto multiple platforms, which of course is exactly what they're trying to do with W8 and W10.

Start8 does work with W10, but I found that it deleted the icons of my items pinned to the Taskbar meaning I couldn't quick launch them. The monotone nursery pastel colours are still rubbish and turgid to look at and hopefully MS will at least bring Aero as an option in the full release. There also really needs to be a way to unpin the useless Search and Task View buttons from the Taskbar. So far it's not convincing me to upgrade either my W7 or W8.1 installs.

 

[Boozad]

But I also asked for choice, so that those who want the tablet start menu on a desktop can have it.

That's already there.

 

[Wozza63]

The best bits I saw from the announcement were the 4 windows at once with easy snapping (and not just 2), the improved command prompt, dx12 and also the multiple desktops. I currently have 15 windows open, some are related to different things. So for example on one desktop I would have a browser usually full screened. On another I would have the documents open. On another I would have my notepad++, VS and Command Prompt open and on another I would have gaming related windows open. That why I can easily switch between which mode I'm working in.

 

[Boozad]

I just switch between windows in my taskbar, I can't see how multiple desktops is going to make that any better than it is.

 

[Wozza63]

I just switch between windows in my taskbar, I can't see how multiple desktops is going to make that any better than it is.

When you have a very large number of windows open it can help a lot. For example I may have 4 chrome windows open all displaying important information. I might want to look at multiple bits of information and then load up another group where I might be inputting data into a spreadsheet with a calculator alongside and the task manager as well.

All of this would be possible without the feature but certainly would reduce the number of clicks.

It seems to be a feature present in many distros of Linux and I think its quite popular. I never had a use for it when I used Linux previously but my reasons for using a PC are hugely different now and much more advanced.

 

[nathanjrb]

4 bits on my screen at once sounds like heaven for work. I have spreadsheets, countless browser windows, emails all needed at once...

 

[Wozza63]

4 bits on my screen at once sounds like heaven for work. I have spreadsheets, countless browser windows, emails all needed at once...

Yeah and could become a commonly used feature for a more average user on 4K screen in a few years time when they are more or less a standard.

 

[Boozad]

They're not on your screen at once though, you still have to switch desktops just like you'd have to switch windows.

 

[ubuysa]

As long as default apps for filetypes are set up more appropriately, I don't think it matters whether the modern apps are installed or not. On Windows 8, it's easy to unpin ones that you don't use - is it not the same on the new start menu in 10? I've got rid of all the ones I don't use on my laptop (ones I do use are things where the new UI looks fine, and optionally having it in a window would be even better - stuff like playing music, video, games, viewing photos).

I don't mind the modern apps being installed, I'm pro-choice so users that want them (and the modern start screen) should be able to have them. Unpinning the modern app tiles from the Windows 10 start screen gives you a less usable start menu than we have with Windows 7 (the shortcuts to Control Panel, Network, etc. etc. are not there in Windows 10).

People talk about desktops vs tablets, but remember many of us are using laptops

Including me . When I've said "desktop" I'm also including laptops of course.

To be fair, that's what most of the Windows 8 critics are asking for. Whilst it would be interesting if they could develop a brand new menu - even if say, they went and brought in something just like Linux Mint, the 1% of people who've used Linux Mint might go "great", and everyone else would say they hate it, because it's different to what they've used before...

And that's what I'm asking Microsoft for, a new modern desktop start menu (I even pointed them to Linux Mint). It needs to be highly customisable though so that users can create the look and feel they prefer.

There was a time when a return of the old Windows 7 start menu would have been enough (Windows 8.1 should have done it). Now though it's too late to just restore that. Twice now (with 8 and then again with 8.1) the desktop user base has been ignored and their goodwill taken for granted. That's why Windows 10 has to say "wow" to desktop (and laptop) users, and that means a modern desktop start menu. Otherwise history will repeat itself, and just as millions of XP users refused to upgrade to Vista so will millions of Windows 7 users refuse (again) to upgrade to Windows 10. How does that benefit Microsoft?

 

[dogbot]

(the shortcuts to Control Panel, Network, etc. etc. are not there in Windows 10).

Look in Taskbar/Properties and there are options for including Control Panel etc in the Start menu.

 

[ubuysa]

Look in Taskbar/Properties and there are options for including Control Panel etc in the Start menu.

Thanks for that dogbot, I'd missed that!

[Edit] I just booted Windows 10 to try that and I still think it sucks. You can't add those items on the right, where they are in WIndows 7, only in the main program list where they take up valuable space. It's another fudge.

Also, I can select small icons for the All Apps list but not for the main start menu list!

I still don't believe it's good enough for a new version of Windows. If they made this Windows 8.2 it would fly, but a new version (ie. Windows 10) has to be something special, especially after the Windows 8 debacle. Windows 8/8.1 were tablet/phone versions. Fair enough, we all understand that Microsoft needed to get Windows on the mobile platform quickly, but the overwhelming majority of Windows customers are desktop or laptop users, and the next version of Windows must address those users. That means a NEW and modern desktop start menu (designed for mouse, keyboard, and large screens).

Microsoft cannot expect desktop and laptop users to put up with a start menu that is now 5 years (and two versions of Windows) old, and if they want consistency between the mobile and desktop look and feel a new desktop start menu is essential.

 

[Wozza63]

They're not on your screen at once though, you still have to switch desktops just like you'd have to switch windows.

No there is a new 4 window snap mode, where in Windows 7 and 8 you can drag to the left and right edges to quickly snap 2 windows side by side. You can now drag them to the corners and have them snap in each corner, it also gives you the suggestions of which windows you can put in the gaps.