Windows 8.1 - worth it?

[Bishybarnybee]

erm ... http://www.zdnet.com/dont-move-your-windows-user-profiles-folder-to-another-drive-7000022142/

Hi Androcles - I would take this article with a pinch of salt.

From reading the article I suspect he is talking about problems caused by moving the Program Files and other system files to the data drive in a way that Microsoft do not support (and which I reckon would be a recipe for disaster so not surprised Windows would object)

I only moved the User data folders (Documents, Pictures, Music, Videos etc.) using the Microsoft supported route via each folder's Properties -> Location -> Move route as we have some large HD Video footage files as well as .wav music files and loads of hi res Photos/Raw image files and I don't want them clogging up the SSD. I also moved the Windows Swap file to the data drive (again using the OS supported method). I left all the main System files, Program files and the App Data folder on the SSD OS drive.

All the folders moved OK under Win 8 and I upgraded with this configuration. They are still in place and accessible following a relatively smooth upgrade to 8.1 (which also gave me the option to move my SkyDrive to the data drive - functionality not available in Win 8)

All subsequent post-upgrade updates from Microsoft seem to have downloaded and installed with no major issues.

 

[rickne]

From a user point of view i noticed little difference from 8 but im sure there is a ton of underlying binary nonsense improving things without my knowledge.

 

[vanthus]

Personally I don't understand why Microsoft found it necessary to bring out
a new operating system anyway,apart from corporate greed that is.
Also I'm not so sure they couldn't have done all this with an optional free service pack update.
Windows7 is a brilliant OS and I'll be sticking with it for a few years yet.
(dives for cover)

 

[Boozad]

Windows7 is a brilliant OS and I'll be sticking with it for a few years yet.

Ain't that the truth! Right there! ^^^^

 

[Bishybarnybee]

I thought I would share a few of my observations and experiences from using Win 8.1 on my Vortex laptop over the last few days
(and while away some time until nathanjrb is able to post a more in-depth review) :yes:


Upgrade itself
My laptop is less than a month old so I did not update any drivers and just used the ones that came pre-installed.
Apart from a co-incidental (but unrelated) hardware fault and a driver getting a bit confused it all went quite smoothly.
The affected driver was quickly re-installed from the PCS Drivers disk that came with the PC.
Had several Microsoft updates since I upgraded but they have all installed without issue too.


Boot-up Performance
I’ve noticed that Win 8.1 is just a tad faster on boot-up (about 18 secs from hitting the power switch to lock screen as opposed to 20 secs on Windows 8).
The Windows Experience Index and System Health Check functionality have been removed from 8.1 (not essential for me but may disappoint some people)
so I am unable to run and see if it showed any differences to Win 8


Windows File Explorer
Libraries have “disappeared” from the Navigator view.
I restored mine by going to the View menu and selecting Navigation Pane -> Show Libraries.
Also found the “Computer” structure in the navigation pane has been renamed “This PC”


Boot to Desktop option
Setting the Boot to Desktop option means the Metro interface can be avoided for much longer now.
For the odd occasions I do venture there I now use the Desktop background picture as a background to the Metro Tiles so it is a bit less of a culture shock and
does look a bit more integrated. (could only choose a colour scheme not a background In Win 8).


The much vaunted Start button
I’ve seen lots of complaints that clicking on it just takes you to the metro Start Screen, which it does if you use the left mouse button.

However (as mentioned by salg04086 in earlier post #3), if you click on it with the Right mouse button you get a lovely little
power tool menu (an expanded version of the Windows key + X menu in Win 8) which now includes a “Shutdown or sign out” menu with
the Sign out/Sleep/ Shutdown/ Restart options (and the Hibernate option if you have previously elected to include this)
plus a handy new link to Network Connections. It has also kept the useful link to Event Viewer.


Program Lists
The metro Start screen now shows an “all Programs by name” list if I click on the downward arrow underneath the tiles
(need to click on the resulting upward arrow to return to Start screen) but this is effectively just a “mini metro” view of all applications.

If (like me) you prefer a folder style view of the programs (more like Win 7) I’ve found it’s quite easy to configure this as a toolbar on
the Desktop Task Bar (which works on Win 8 too).

• Right click on Desktop Taskbar and select Toolbars -> New Toolbar
• in the Folder box type “C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu” without the quotes
• Click the “Select Folder” button and voila! A nice little folder based Start Menu from the Desktop Task bar

Searching
A significantly improved Search that’s much more like I would expect a search function to be.

In Win 8 I have to focus the search by choosing what I am searching for (apps, settings, files) and I then get a pile of results returned.
In 8.1 no need to specify a focus. It will automatically search the local PC and the Web and it also presents the results in a much more structured format
so not just dumped in front of me (uses Bing to search the web and that seems to be built in)


Applications
Includes a new version of Internet Explorer – IE 11. To me it looks a bit sleeker and feels a bit slicker to use.
Some posts I’ve read indicate potential problems with web sites that do not properly adhere to recognised web standards but I haven’t come across any problems (as yet).

A built in “Help and Tips” app on the Metro Start screen gives a quick user tutorial for beginner level functions and using the corner Hotspots.
It is also possible to disable the corner “hotspots” if desired but I haven’t bothered with this.

Venturing further into “metroland” most of the metro Apps have been updated and improved. There are also a few new ones.
Calculator is back and a new one I am finding useful is Reading List which allows you to collect together in one place a variety of links (web pages, documents, emails etc.)
that you think you may want to come back to and read at some later point when you have time.

The tiles can be resized (Large, Wide, Medium and Small where 4 small tiles = 1 large) and it’s much easier to group tiles together and categorise/label the groups how you want them.

With the metro apps the most annoying thing I found was that they tend to hog the screen and have no menu bar to close them easily so they often end up lurking in the background.
This is much less of a problem now I’ve learned to use the Alt + F4 key combination to quickly close them down.

I can also have up to 3 of these apps open and “snapped” together on a single screen (almost back to “windows” again?) and can change the size of their space on screen to some degree.
(The maximum number that can be opened is up to 3 or 4 per screen (total depends on screen resolution and number of screens in use) On Win 8 only 2 can be open together and their sizes are pre-determined.

Desktop applications (mostly Adobe CS and Office 360) I haven’t really noticed any difference in how they launch and perform from Win 8.


Conclusion
As far as I am concerned it is so far so good.

I was happy with the (relatively painless) upgrade process and to date I am pleased I took the plunge and consider it worth doing.

As I have already made the jump from Win 7 to Win 8 with the new machines I now consider that Win 8.1 is just another part of the learning curve.
I am beginning to feel more comfortable with it, so it might not be too much longer before I upgrade the Desktop PC (but natural caution still dictates waiting a week or two before I finally jump with that).

That said, I still find I am spending 90%+ of my time in Desktop environment running desktop applications tho!

 

[gaaron]

I only moved the User data folders (Documents, Pictures, Music, Videos etc.) using the Microsoft supported route via each folder's Properties -> Location -> Move route as we have some large HD Video footage files as well as .wav music files and loads of hi res Photos/Raw image files and I don't want them clogging up the SSD. I also moved the Windows Swap file to the data drive (again using the OS supported method). I left all the main System files, Program files and the App Data folder on the SSD OS drive.

Thankyou I found this post very usefull & will try it out with iTunes. As it's my 1st time with 2 separate drives I had no idea on how to do it.

 

[dogbot]

Hi Androcles - I would take this article with a pinch of salt.

From reading the article I suspect he is talking about problems caused by moving the Program Files and other system files to the data drive in a way that Microsoft do not support (and which I reckon would be a recipe for disaster so not surprised Windows would object)

I only moved the User data folders (Documents, Pictures, Music, Videos etc.) using the Microsoft supported route via each folder's Properties -> Location -> Move route as we have some large HD Video footage files as well as .wav music files and loads of hi res Photos/Raw image files and I don't want them clogging up the SSD. I also moved the Windows Swap file to the data drive (again using the OS supported method). I left all the main System files, Program files and the App Data folder on the SSD OS drive.

All the folders moved OK under Win 8 and I upgraded with this configuration. They are still in place and accessible following a relatively smooth upgrade to 8.1 (which also gave me the option to move my SkyDrive to the data drive - functionality not available in Win 8)

All subsequent post-upgrade updates from Microsoft seem to have downloaded and installed with no major issues.

SSD or not, for years I have liked the OS and programs to be in their own partition and, like you, move the main user folders (and downloads) to another drive. I did once try to move the 'User' folder at one time but could not. The only thing stopping it was a hidden legacy 'My documents' system folder for compatibility with earlier (XP) operating systems. Being content with just moving the main folders I left well alone just as you have.

The article refered to seems to have been researched fairly well and I would not take it with a pinch of salt. Let those who wish to ignore it do so at their own risk. I am sure that neither of us will be one of them.

 

[gaaron]

Thankyou BishyBarmyBee I have gained some very usefull knowledge from your post. I've just had my Vortex a few days & updated to 8.1 before actually getting used to the ins & out of my laptop & never having had win 8, or 7, for that matter.
All is working very well now, apart from my Bluetooth mobile - I now know how to fix it - it needs a firmware update. I'll have to persevere with that one

 

[Bishybarnybee]

Thankyou I found this post very usefull & will try it out with iTunes. As it's my 1st time with 2 separate drives I had no idea on how to do it.

Hi gaaron

If you are planning to move your User data folders to your second (data) drive, before you do anything please ensure you create your destination folder structure on the data drive first. (just use New Folder to create them). You don't need to give them any content-specific properties as the Move process will do that for you

I have set up a top level folder called User-Data, within that I have a folder for each user of the computer and within each of these user folders I have the data folders for that user (Documents, Downloads, Music, Pictures etc.).

Once you have done this go to the Users folder on the C drive, open the folder for the User that you want to move and then work through the data folders you want to move one by one.
You will have to move each one individually, that can't be avoided.

Right click the folder, select Properties -> Location -> Move and you will be prompted to select the destination folder you want to move it to.

Navigate to the relevant User Data folder you have just created on your data drive and select it.

You will then be asked if you want to copy the contents of the original folder to the new one - select Yes to this.

Your data will then be copied across, the destination folder customised to the content type and the original folder will disappear from the C drive.​

If there isn't a location tab in folder Properties then it can't be moved. I have moved all my User Data folders except the AppData folder.

If you have already installed iTunes its data is stored by default in the Music folder and will be transferred along with any other data in this folder.

If you haven't yet installed iTunes when you do it will install in the Music folder on your data drive.

Using this structure also helps make it easier to backup the bulk of the User data - I can just back up the entire User-Data folder structure on the data drive to an external HD.

Hope that helps

 

[Androcles]

Windows 8.1 mouse lag badly affecting some games
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-10-21-windows-8-1-causing-mouse-lag-that-badly-affects-games

Meanwhile AMD users are getting better APU performance in 8.1.
http://community.amd.com/community/...erformance-and-user-experience-with-windows-8

 

[ubuysa]

I thought I would share a few of my observations and experiences from using Win 8.1 on my Vortex laptop over the last few days
(and while away some time until nathanjrb is able to post a more in-depth review) :yes:


Upgrade itself
My laptop is less than a month old so I did not update any drivers and just used the ones that came pre-installed.
Apart from a co-incidental (but unrelated) hardware fault and a driver getting a bit confused it all went quite smoothly.
The affected driver was quickly re-installed from the PCS Drivers disk that came with the PC.
Had several Microsoft updates since I upgraded but they have all installed without issue too.


Boot-up Performance
I’ve noticed that Win 8.1 is just a tad faster on boot-up (about 18 secs from hitting the power switch to lock screen as opposed to 20 secs on Windows 8).
The Windows Experience Index and System Health Check functionality have been removed from 8.1 (not essential for me but may disappoint some people)
so I am unable to run and see if it showed any differences to Win 8


Windows File Explorer
Libraries have “disappeared” from the Navigator view.
I restored mine by going to the View menu and selecting Navigation Pane -> Show Libraries.
Also found the “Computer” structure in the navigation pane has been renamed “This PC”


Boot to Desktop option
Setting the Boot to Desktop option means the Metro interface can be avoided for much longer now.
For the odd occasions I do venture there I now use the Desktop background picture as a background to the Metro Tiles so it is a bit less of a culture shock and
does look a bit more integrated. (could only choose a colour scheme not a background In Win 8).


The much vaunted Start button
I’ve seen lots of complaints that clicking on it just takes you to the metro Start Screen, which it does if you use the left mouse button.

However (as mentioned by salg04086 in earlier post #3), if you click on it with the Right mouse button you get a lovely little
power tool menu (an expanded version of the Windows key + X menu in Win 8) which now includes a “Shutdown or sign out” menu with
the Sign out/Sleep/ Shutdown/ Restart options (and the Hibernate option if you have previously elected to include this)
plus a handy new link to Network Connections. It has also kept the useful link to Event Viewer.


Program Lists
The metro Start screen now shows an “all Programs by name” list if I click on the downward arrow underneath the tiles
(need to click on the resulting upward arrow to return to Start screen) but this is effectively just a “mini metro” view of all applications.

If (like me) you prefer a folder style view of the programs (more like Win 7) I’ve found it’s quite easy to configure this as a toolbar on
the Desktop Task Bar (which works on Win 8 too).

• Right click on Desktop Taskbar and select Toolbars -> New Toolbar
• in the Folder box type “C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu” without the quotes
• Click the “Select Folder” button and voila! A nice little folder based Start Menu from the Desktop Task bar

Searching
A significantly improved Search that’s much more like I would expect a search function to be.

In Win 8 I have to focus the search by choosing what I am searching for (apps, settings, files) and I then get a pile of results returned.
In 8.1 no need to specify a focus. It will automatically search the local PC and the Web and it also presents the results in a much more structured format
so not just dumped in front of me (uses Bing to search the web and that seems to be built in)


Applications
Includes a new version of Internet Explorer – IE 11. To me it looks a bit sleeker and feels a bit slicker to use.
Some posts I’ve read indicate potential problems with web sites that do not properly adhere to recognised web standards but I haven’t come across any problems (as yet).

A built in “Help and Tips” app on the Metro Start screen gives a quick user tutorial for beginner level functions and using the corner Hotspots.
It is also possible to disable the corner “hotspots” if desired but I haven’t bothered with this.

Venturing further into “metroland” most of the metro Apps have been updated and improved. There are also a few new ones.
Calculator is back and a new one I am finding useful is Reading List which allows you to collect together in one place a variety of links (web pages, documents, emails etc.)
that you think you may want to come back to and read at some later point when you have time.

The tiles can be resized (Large, Wide, Medium and Small where 4 small tiles = 1 large) and it’s much easier to group tiles together and categorise/label the groups how you want them.

With the metro apps the most annoying thing I found was that they tend to hog the screen and have no menu bar to close them easily so they often end up lurking in the background.
This is much less of a problem now I’ve learned to use the Alt + F4 key combination to quickly close them down.

I can also have up to 3 of these apps open and “snapped” together on a single screen (almost back to “windows” again?) and can change the size of their space on screen to some degree.
(The maximum number that can be opened is up to 3 or 4 per screen (total depends on screen resolution and number of screens in use) On Win 8 only 2 can be open together and their sizes are pre-determined.

Desktop applications (mostly Adobe CS and Office 360) I haven’t really noticed any difference in how they launch and perform from Win 8.


Conclusion
As far as I am concerned it is so far so good.

I was happy with the (relatively painless) upgrade process and to date I am pleased I took the plunge and consider it worth doing.

As I have already made the jump from Win 7 to Win 8 with the new machines I now consider that Win 8.1 is just another part of the learning curve.
I am beginning to feel more comfortable with it, so it might not be too much longer before I upgrade the Desktop PC (but natural caution still dictates waiting a week or two before I finally jump with that).

That said, I still find I am spending 90%+ of my time in Desktop environment running desktop applications tho!

Many thanks for this, excellent stuff. It has confirmed though that 8.1 has little or nothing that would make me want it now. SO I've put it on the back-burner and I'll come back to it in a couple of months when (hopefully) everything else will work properly with it.

I really appreciate all the helpful replies. Thank you everyone!

 

[mdwh]

From the ZDNet article:

"This just seems like continuing evidence that desktop users (and open architecture) are an afterthought at Microsoft."

I don't really understand this - if anything, desktop users are more likely to have bigger primary drives that don't need to move the program files and user profiles (they might move some of the sub-folders, but the article says it's only a problem if you move the complete user profile). On laptops, it's more likely to be the ultra-portables that have smaller primary drives. And tablets would be the most likely to be affected, since some have very small amounts of storage space, and using the microSD expansion is one way to get round that.

Not saying that this isn't a problem, but this isn't part of some "kill the desktop" agenda, rather I suspect it's more that managing multiple drives with having the information on a different drive is something that many OSs have trouble with (not just Windows - Google have basically giving up trying, and now don't want anything to do with microSD on Android; Apple have never bothered for IOS).

My advice would be to do as Bishybarnybee does. Unfortunately that does mean that for Program Files and Appddata, you're stuck with it on the primary drive. But for music, videos, documents etc, you can put them wherever (and Windows also supports having multiple folders for, e.g., Music, by adding them to a Library).

Personally I don't understand why Microsoft found it necessary to bring out
a new operating system anyway,apart from corporate greed that is.
Also I'm not so sure they couldn't have done all this with an optional free service pack update.
Windows7 is a brilliant OS and I'll be sticking with it for a few years yet.
(dives for cover)

Ah but that's just it - 8.1 *is* a service pack, effectively. It's not a whole new OS, but an update to 8. Just like service packs, it's free, and you can't do a fresh install. And it's optional. Is there any significant difference to a service pack?

 

[Androcles]

From the ZDNet article:

Ah but that's just it - 8.1 *is* a service pack, effectively. It's not a whole new OS, but an update to 8. Just like service packs, it's free, and you can't do a fresh install. And it's optional. Is there any significant difference to a service pack?

Actually you can, Windows 8.1 is now being sold as a full OS not just an update.

 

[vanthus]

Ah but that's just it - 8.1 *is* a service pack, effectively. It's not a whole new OS, but an update to 8. Just like service packs, it's free, and you can't do a fresh install. And it's optional. Is there any significant difference to a service pack?

I was talking about Windows 8,the only real improvement over Windows 7 I've seen posted is it's a bit faster.
I don't think it has media center either,which I use with my TV card,and it doesn't appear to have the same backup options of Windows 7,(I could be wrong about that) which was one of the biggest improvements I've seen.
But each to their own I suppose.

 

[gaaron]

BishyBarmy...Thankyou so much - I'm trying it out with ms word 1st. I had copied files to a new directory (folder) onto the E drive...but realised this didn't make it the 'default' to send/save. I deleted all the folders that I had made (I had used the 'library' share). SkyDrive seemed to be default when testing. So I made a folder & followed your brill advise, in order for skydrive to be E:/Skydrive for default route for saving etc. However, when I try to save a 'word doc' the pc automatically states the 'skydrive' on c drive....... Forgive my ignorance

I made new folders on E drive ...Documents;pictures;downloads;music;skydrive;favourites

 

[gaaron]

unsure if I posted correctly - but if not, the post will be on this thread

 

[salg04086]

I was talking about Windows 8,the only real improvement over Windows 7 I've seen posted is it's a bit faster.
I don't think it has media center either,which I use with my TV card,and it doesn't appear to have the same backup options of Windows 7,(I could be wrong about that) which was one of the biggest improvements I've seen.
But each to their own I suppose.

You have to purchase Media Centre in addition to installing the update. However if your like me and had/have the Media centre already installed under windows 8 then you get windows media centre with 8.1

PS Media centre in windows 8.1 is working perfectly together with my media centre remote and there was no need to retune or scan again for channels. All other features within media centre are also working.

Hope this reassures anyone whom is wondering about media centre within 8.1 :yes:

 

[ubuysa]

I was talking about Windows 8,the only real improvement over Windows 7 I've seen posted is it's a bit faster.
I don't think it has media center either,which I use with my TV card,and it doesn't appear to have the same backup options of Windows 7,(I could be wrong about that) which was one of the biggest improvements I've seen.
But each to their own I suppose.

And that's a perfectly sensible option - for now. But it's clear that Microsoft have "bet the farm" on Windows 8/8.1 and the idea of a unified tablet/desktop OS, so it's vital to them that it is seen to be widely accepted. If a significant number of desktop users choose to stick with Windows 7 and not upgrade Microsoft's likely response will be an early withdrawal of support for Windows 7. I think that if you imagine Windows 7 will have the same life-span as Windows XP you're in for a big shock.

Microsoft's primary concern is of course, Microsoft.

 

[Androcles]

And that's a perfectly sensible option - for now. But it's clear that Microsoft have "bet the farm" on Windows 8/8.1 and the idea of a unified tablet/desktop OS, so it's vital to them that it is seen to be widely accepted. If a significant number of desktop users choose to stick with Windows 7 and not upgrade Microsoft's likely response will be an early withdrawal of support for Windows 7. I think that if you imagine Windows 7 will have the same life-span as Windows XP you're in for a big shock.

Microsoft's primary concern is of course, Microsoft.

Actually they have apparently kind of admitted that metro was a bad move, there have been leaks from MS that Windows 9 which is already in development is a Windows 7 desktop based OS with Metro options.

 

[ubuysa]

Actually they have apparently kind of admitted that metro was a bad move, there have been leaks from MS that Windows 9 which is already in development is a Windows 7 desktop based OS with Metro options.

Now that would make a lot more sense. Early on in the Windows 8 development when it became clear that the tablet was the focus and the desktop would have to live with it, many were asking Microsoft to do just that and produce an OS with a unified kernel and a choice of UI. I hope you're right and they are seeing some sense.