Torn between 4k gaming options in horrible component market - opinions please?

[AlDav]

Ahem ... just emptied my recyle bin!

 

[Martinr36]

Ahem ... just emptied my recyle bin!

View attachment 39892

it often gets forgot

 

[AlDav]

I wouldn't go for the 980, they aren't the best for endurance (lifespan). 1TB is overkill and you will be more likely to store tat in the primary drive. You want to keep the primary drive as trim as possible to ensure peak performance throughout use. 500GB is more than enough for this, with the ideal utilisation kept below 50%.

Extra cooling won't make much odds to be honest. You can eek a bit of performance with PBO etc which can demand a decent cooler, but standard usage a 240mm rad has you more than covered. There's not a lot of money in it though so, like the PSU, overkill is better than undershooting.

Corsair coolers have really good paste on. Getting the optional paste doesn't add anything and you're at the mercy of the person applying it rather than a manufacturer. I always recommend sticking with the corsair stuff, it's decent.

1000w all day long. I would argue 1200w when aiming for top tier to be honest. It's a shame they don't offer the 1000w shift PSU as that's ATX3.0 and covers all the bases nicely.

Just back to system drives, whether 0.5 or 1TB .. any particular recommendations for speed and reliability?

Separately, what speed actually matters for loading games off secondary 2TB drives?

 

[SpyderTracks]

Just back to system drives, whether 0.5 or 1TB .. any particular recommendations for speed and reliability?

Separately, what speed actually matters for loading games off secondary 2TB drives?

Currently, a PCIe Gen 3 drive at peaks of 3500mbs is lightenting quick for any games.

BUT, there's a new technology called DirectStorage which loads game assets directly from the SSD to the VRAM on the GPU, bypassing the CPU, and this can benefit from whatever speeds you can throw at it. I expect this technology to be quite heavily concentrated on over the next few years, it's already been a significant hit on the PlayStation where it was first realised.

Load PC Games Faster: How to Use DirectStorage in Windows 11

Microsoft's DirectStorage API promises fast load times for supported PC games. Here's what you need to know and how to get started.

uk.pcmag.com

If you're stuck by budget, just a PCIe 3 gen M2 drive is fine.

But if you've got budget available, I'd say go for either the P44 Pro or the Corsair MP600

And personally I'd suggest a minimum of 2TB for a games drive these days, games are getting HUGE quickly!

 

[Scott]

A tonne of large applications and an element of data (there, also on NAS and periodic external/remote backup). I use some cycling apps which can be huge. Could treat like games with some; others are Store apps so not so easy to manage.

View attachment 39889

View attachment 39890


Basically, within 50GB, that's about as much as I should use, all other things staying the same.

View attachment 39891

The media is a prime example of stuff that I wouldn't have on a primary. You don't get any benefit from having media on fast drives.

PAK suggests games? almost 20GB there
Videos & Pics - 35GB or so there
Quite the collection of PDFs as well.

The rest looks reasonably standard I guess.

This is my primary..... and it's actually due a clean out as I have some media that needs cleared out.

The 1TB was a waste for me, but I wanted a specific drive (Firecuda) and the performance of the 500GB drive was almost halved in the writes. I took the hit on the cash to get what I wanted, but I still have the same approach to keeping it as slim as possible.

Not as slim on the other media though. The D-drive is just my guff drive:

 

[Scott]

Much better

 

[AlDav]

The media is a prime example of stuff that I wouldn't have on a primary. You don't get any benefit from having media on fast drives.

PAK suggests games? almost 20GB there
Videos & Pics - 35GB or so there
Quite the collection of PDFs as well.

The rest looks reasonably standard I guess.

View attachment 39893

This is my primary..... and it's actually due a clean out as I have some media that needs cleared out.

The 1TB was a waste for me, but I wanted a specific drive (Firecuda) and the performance of the 500GB drive was almost halved in the writes. I took the hit on the cash to get what I wanted, but I still have the same approach to keeping it as slim as possible.

Not as slim on the other media though. The D-drive is just my guff drive:

View attachment 39894

There are many complex reasons for why things are where they are for set periods of time, cloud synch, etc. It's also about an 11 year old system with at least one drive I don't trust too much anymore. Vids & Pics at year end size peak too. It is a system that makes sense for me ;P Zero games .. perhaps MS Solitare from the Store! Cycling apps can be many GB. The PDFs are a cache that don't need to be there but are currently. I could drop 50-70GB, but don't need to.

Anyway, as you say, 1TB can make sense for a number of reasons, even if only 1/4 of it is used. Looks to me £20-40 extra over 512GB? Firecuda 530 is actually the other drive I'd spec if I didn't see the 980 on offer .. both seemed cutting edge fast at the time and decent brands.

Solidigm seem to come up a lot as a cheap option, especially for larger sizes. I have no experience with them. It's them, Corsair or a Samsung 990 in terms of other PCS options .. or just Amazon I guess since a secondary drive.

 

[AlDav]

Interestingly the OC 7900XTX is only about £40 more (and the base card is ~£1100 IIRC .. quite dear). Prob may as well spec that for an extra couple of FPS and better cooling? I think this would be near my final spec to therefore compare against a 4080 Super when they come out:


Case
CORSAIR iCUE 5000X RGB MID TOWER GAMING CASE
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Eight Core CPU (4.2GHz-5.0GHz/104MB w/3D V-CACHE/AM5)
Motherboard
ASUS® TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS WIFI (AM5, DDR5, PCIe 5.0, Wi-Fi 6E)
Memory (RAM)
32GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB DDR5 6000MHz (2 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
24GB ASUS TUF GAMING RADEON™ RX 7900 XTX OC - HDMI, DP - DX® 12
1st M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG 990 PRO M.2, PCIe 4.0 NVMe (up to 7450MB/R, 6900MB/W)
Power Supply
CORSAIR 1000W RMx SERIES™ - MODULAR 80 PLUS GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead, 1.0mm Core)
Processor Cooling
CORSAIR iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX XT RGB High Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
ONBOARD 2.5Gbe LAN PORT
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 11 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Google Chrome™
Warranty
3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 5 to 7 working days
Price: £2,655.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/amd-am5-pc/5ss0SAxD3w/



Given the stock fan configuration of the case and AIO and that it's quite a high airflow case, is there any reason at all to consider any addition exhaust fan? I'm assuming not for now and I guess it's not rocket science to add if temps aren't ideal (not that it always has the intended effect anyway).

 

[Scott]

The 990 had some issues at launch but I think it's OK now. I wouldn't go samsung with M2 drives now. They lost the crown around the 970 model mark IMO. They tried to claw things back with the 990 but it was too little too late. The Firecuda had already surpassed them as the brand of trust.

Solidgm is definitely worth considering. The p44 is a cracking drive. It wasn't on the radar when I was buying or I would probably have gone with it. The endurance is fantastic. Similar with the Corsair, but the ones on offer aren't as fast.

From PCs I'd stick with SolidGM and I would even consider one of the higher end Corsair units as a secondary drive (whether 1tb or 2tb was your preference) for some fast secondary storage/games/etc. It doesn't need to be as fast as the primary, but above 4TB/s is a nice to have

 

[AlDav]

So now the dust has settled on the 4080 Super, it's £23 difference between it and the 7900XTX on the spec below. I see as many YT clips saying you're insane to go with the 4080S as RT is too young as I do saying you'd be crazy NOT to get the 4080S since you get RT and enough games over 60fps to justify 4k DLSS. I guess if you go with it, then you almost have to use RT (& sometimes DLSS) whenever possible to get the benefit over generally faster rasterisation on the AMD side ..

I hate this generation, but now is the time for me to buy, so choose one I must (and I can't live with paying Nvidia what they want for a 4090!). Also thinking I could save almost £150 by just buying GPU elsewhere (eg. https://www.overclockers.co.uk/gain...ddr6x-pci-express-graphics-gra-gnw-01539.html).



Case
CORSAIR iCUE 5000X RGB MID TOWER GAMING CASE
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Eight Core CPU (4.2GHz-5.0GHz/104MB w/3D V-CACHE/AM5)
Motherboard
ASUS® TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS WIFI (AM5, DDR5, PCIe 5.0, Wi-Fi 6E)
Memory (RAM)
32GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB DDR5 6000MHz (2 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
16GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 4080 SUPER - HDMI, DP, LHR
1st M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG 990 PRO M.2, PCIe 4.0 NVMe (up to 7450MB/R, 6900MB/W)
Power Supply
CORSAIR 1000W RMx SERIES™ - MODULAR 80 PLUS GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead, 1.0mm Core)
Processor Cooling
CORSAIR iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX XT RGB High Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
ONBOARD 2.5Gbe LAN PORT
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 11 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
Norton 360 inc. Game Optimizer - Free 90 Day License
Browser
Microsoft® Edge
Warranty
3 Year Standard Warranty (6 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 5 to 7 working days
Price: £2,612.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/amd-am5-pc/uP0ftaN5hb/

 

[AlDav]

Or slap a 24GB ASUS TUF GAMING RADEON™ RX 7900 XTX OC in for £24 more than the 4080S! Does the Asus OC actually count for anything real?

 

[TonyCarter]

I'm not sure what sort of videos your watching that claim Nvidia's RT is 'too young'...as it's the most mature of the current offerings and gives about 2x the FPS of the equivalent AMD GPU in the same game.

The only reason we rarely suggested the RTX4080 over the 7800XT was the price. Everything else being equal (as it now is), the RTX4080 (and now the Super) is the better value for 1440p/4k gaming...especially if you want to use RT...at 1080p the AMD raster performance is better.

 

[AlDav]

Having read the main reviews, I've probably strayed to .. less known content authors with side by sides rather than charts. To be fair, RT seems just over the bridge with 4080/90. Next generation will feel mature (it better!). If you want RT, Nvidia is the only real option, I get that. The question is is RT worth it for otherwise a few % loss in rasterisation? I'm only ever going to game at 4k with everything cranked up, as long as I can get 60-70fps bare minimum.

 

[TonyCarter]

Well, depending on the game, and assuming Frame Generation is used, I can't see why you couldn't expect that sort of performance...but 'ultra' settings are really pointless as they don't tend to add much to the visuals or gaming experience...and are there for those wanting to 'push the envelope' for benchmarking.

After all, if it can do 60fps with everything cranked to 11, then it will obviously provide more FPS if only on cranked to 9

I don't even use Ultra/Extreme settings on my 4090, nor RT in most cases as I find it adds very little other than some overly shiny puddles/windows...for a 40% drop in FPS...which means you then turn on FG and DLSS to get those FPS back...which reduces the quality again!!!

 

[AlDav]

Such a headache reducing variables across builds this weekend! At least I'm just down to PC Specialist vs. Cyberpower in terms of purchase point.

7900XTX is obviously the cheapest option, but £22 extra can get me a 4080S FE with PCS. Or an extra £46 can upgrade the 7900XTX to Asus' TUF version. I get the impression from reviews, that it's worth going 3rd party with the 7900XTX, but not really with the 7800S FE. That being the case, it's between the Asus 7900XTX and 4080S FE on £24. I'm spending so much time on what I think are basically two options that I'd love either one of. I still feel AMD drivers and glitches worry me more, though the 4080S seems slower in more games without RTX. I'm 55% on the Nvidia side.

Mobo wise, the ASUS® TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS WIFI seems like a solid option with the S1220A audio and Realtec LAN being less problematic than the ALC4080 and Intel LAN seen on many other boards (like the ASUS ROG Strix B650E-F Gaming WIFI that I'd specced up with my Cyberpower build).

Final thing .. does anyone know what the CAS latencies are with what PCS just show as "32GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB DDR5 6000MHz"?

 

[Scott]

Just a heads up, the 4080S on PCS isn't an FE. There are no NVidia FE cards on PCS unless otherwise stated.

 

[AlDav]

Ahh .. interesting. Do you know what they have been stocking on PCS? On Cyberpower, the cheapest card is just labelled "MSI GeForce RTX™ 4080 SUPER 16GB" ... safe to assume Ventus?

 

[TonyCarter]

Ahh .. interesting. Do you know what they have been stocking on PCS? On Cyberpower, the cheapest card is just labelled "MSI GeForce RTX™ 4080 SUPER 16GB" ... safe to assume Ventus?

Not specifically on the 4080S, but in the past they've supplied Palit, Zotac, Gainward, Sapphire and Gigabyte cards IIRC.

If you're planning on using VR or love Ray Tracing then the 4080 Super is probably the way to go. If not, the 7900XTX will probably suit you better.

Best way to see what's better for you specific use case is to type the 2 GPUs you're considering into Youtube and see what the benchmarks show for some specific games you'll be playing, e.g.

(4080 non-S, but just add 1-3% extra FPS for the Super version)

 

[AlDav]

Thanks - I'd seen those three and they're a good summary of where this generation is at sadly. This screenshot says it all:

I like games from both ends of that spectrum. I guess in 1-2 years time it's possible RTX will pick up a lot and be worthwhile having an "aging" card that at least can still play there, whereas the 7900XTX might not so much. Lots of maybes.

It's annoying the FE card isn't available ... it's also frankly annoying the price we're still looking at in the UK for both cards. They should be £200-250 cheaper all things being equal on US prices. Do you think PCS will have a lower prices when they eventually get FW cards in compared to whatever "mystery" card they're providing now (FE should be £1-200 cheaper)?

If I go team AMD .. is the Asus card worth it for not a lot more cost over base spec?

 

[Scott]

I think you may be getting a little mixed up with the US pricing. It's not as far away as you think it is as they never include tax in their pricing, due to different states having different pricing. We pay a flat 20% so that would make any $1000 card instantly cost $1200.

$1200 = ITRO £950, with the FE edition slotted in at £959 in the UK.

It's basically around what you would expect to pay.

PCS is currently around £1100 but my guess is this is most likely down to stock and supply prices going up. It's very few and far between that you will ever purchase a RRP value on launch (FE from Nvidia aside). The cheapest I could find shopping around was £1050, in stock, for example.

With everything even, or thereabouts, I would probably side with Nvidia on this. Their tech is a little better, their driver experience is better, VR is night and day and the resale value, I think, will hold better.